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    Nick Mohammed Has Been Faking It on ‘Ted Lasso’

    The British actor and soccer non-fan scored his first Emmy nomination playing a sharp soccer coach in the hit Apple TV+ comedy.Voting is underway for the 73rd Primetime Emmys, and this week we’re talking to several first-time Emmy nominees. The awards will be presented Sept. 19 on CBS.The first season of “Ted Lasso” follows a sunny American who moves to England to take on a quintessentially British institution: the Premier League. Nick Mohammed, the British actor who plays Ted’s underdog assistant coach Nate, is about to follow the opposite trajectory. His first trip to the United States will be to attend next month’s Emmy Awards, honoring the best of American television. (Assuming there’s an in-person ceremony, of course.)Mohammed was one of seven “Ted Lasso” stars to receive Emmy nods this year, among the 20 total the Apple TV+ series received, the most of any comedy. He was nominated for best supporting actor in a comedy, and he will compete with three of his co-stars in the category: Brett Goldstein, who plays the prickly retired footballer Roy Kent; Brendan Hunt, the laconic assistant Coach Beard; and Jeremy Swift, the amiable team executive Higgins.It’s a not terribly predictable turn for a man who at one time was pursuing a Ph.D. in geophysics at Cambridge, with plans to work in the oil industry. But a stint in the Footlights, the university’s famous comedy troupe (celebrity alumni include John Cleese, Olivia Colman and John Oliver, among many others), set him on a different path.Mohammed with Jason Sudeikis in a scene from Season 1. Mohammed said that playing Nate had given him a new appreciation for soccer, but he is still not a fan.Apple TV Plus, via Associated PressMohammed has since been a fairly regular presence on British radio and TV, though he has only felt comfortable calling himself an actor “really for the last five years or so,” he said. Before “Ted Lasso,” he was probably best-known to American viewers as a creator and star of the cybersecurity sitcom “Intelligence,” streaming on Peacock.“It was a bit of a slow burn,” he said. “A bit like Nate, I guess: Just plugging away at it for a while. But I love it, and I feel very lucky and grateful to call it a living.”In a recent phone interview, Mohammed talked about Season 2 pressures, Nate’s coming “spiral” and what it’s like to play a soccer coach when you don’t care about soccer. These are edited excerpts from the conversation.“Ted Lasso” received the most ever Emmy nominations for a first-year comedy. I doubt anyone would have predicted that when it premiered in August 2020.It was quite a strange thing, really. We loved the show and obviously we all hoped that it would resonate with lots of people and so on, but you can’t really predict that kind of success. I get recognized every day, which is weird. Then with Season 2 coming off the back of the success of Season 1, there was suddenly a lot of attention on the show and a responsibility for us to deliver as well.Did you feel added pressure when you were shooting the second season?Absolutely, I think everyone did. There was a degree of, we’ve got a duty of care here because there was a growing fan base who will be putting quite a lot of expectation on Season 2. The show has communicated to people at a time when people really did need a bit of a pick up, I think. As much as it felt like a responsibility, it’s a privileged position to be in.The creators — Jason Sudeikis, Bill Lawrence, Joe Kelly and Hunt — have said they have a three-season plan for almost every main character. What did you know about Nate when you started out?I initially went out for Higgins, which I didn’t get. They asked me to tape for Nate, and once I’d got the part, Jason and Bill explained that Nate is going places, with that underdog arc in Season 1. Then I think we were filming the gala episode, and I sat next to Jason and he outlined exactly where Nate goes in Season 2 — which, we can’t give anything away, but Nate goes on a very different journey. He’s told me where it goes in Season 3 as well.So you don’t get killed off this season?It’s not a spoiler to suggest that I don’t get killed off this season. Virtually every member of the cast has a little journey. Often that’s not the case with minor parts, where your job is to be a constant so the major players can change and adapt and grow. But everyone in “Ted Lasso” goes somewhere.So far this season, Nate seems to be feeling disregarded, and not afforded the respect he thinks he deserves.What’s interesting now is this is a character who still has the same demons and insecurities, but he’s now got this position of power. But he’s struggling because he’s still awkward. We’re about to find out — and this isn’t really a spoiler — that it is connected to the relationship with his dad, in that he’s never been able to please him. So I think Nate is quite an embittered soul, sadly. We are going to see him spiral a bit, but I won’t give anything more away.When I interviewed the creators last month, they seemed very interested in things like social media and the thirst for attention and how it can bring out the worst in people. To what extent will that shape Nate’s story?That absolutely resonates, the rise of social media and how it affects anyone in the public eye and how they act. One thing Jason did say is that just through his experience on “Saturday Night Live,” you can see a change in people. When they first start out, they’re really hungry and loving it and being really creative. But there is a tipping point when they get a little recognition, when it starts to go to people’s heads. Not everyone, but some people — things can take a slightly different turn. So I think Nate’s story is absolutely based on a truth.Is any of that playing out in your own life now that you’re getting recognized for “Ted Lasso”?[Laughs.] I hope not. It’s a weird old thing though, especially because I actually live in Richmond, where the show is set. I go jogging over Richmond green and people are like, “Nate the Great! Nate the Great!” I’m a little nervous now because of Season 2, and particularly the way Season 2 ends — I hope there won’t be an aftermath to that. We’ll see how it pans out.Nate’s underdog arc in Season 1 endeared him to many viewers, but Mohammed (pictured with Sudeikis and Brendan Hunt) said he was a little nervous about how they would feel after Season 2. Apple TV+Nate has proved himself a cagey coach, but I read that you don’t really care about soccer. Are you more of a fan now that you’ve shot a couple seasons of this soccer show?Sadly I’m not. I’ve got a newfound respect for the sport — I just wish I could be a little bit more enthused about it. I was brought up in a football household, and I’d get taken to matches, but I just couldn’t delight in it in the way my friends and family could. The guys on the show who are big soccer fans — some of the stadiums that we got to shoot in, they’re just like, “This is incredible!” I try and engage with that enthusiasm for it, but I am faking it, absolutely.When it comes to acting, particularly when I’m talking tactics, there were scenes when I had to ask Brendan, “Is this a noun or a verb?” Because I literally don’t know what I’m referring to.Who else on the show is faking it?Brett, who plays angry Roy Kent — particularly in Season 1 until the mask slipped — I mean, Brett is an absolute sweetheart. We started doing the London comedy circuit around the same time, and so we’ve gigged together a lot. Phil Dunster is so different to Jamie Tartt — really nice, not posh, just a real gentleman. Maybe apart from Phil, actually, everyone’s got an element of their character in them. I can sometimes lack a bit of confidence, or I’m happy to just sit back and not be too vocal.You performed as a magician when you were young but ended up pursuing a Ph.D. in geophysics at Cambridge. What is the overlap between geophysics, magic and comedy?I think everyone’s trying to find the missing link. Magic and performing, obviously — I had that performing bug since I was kid. But geophysics? I was all lined up to go work for an oil company, and then I just got bitten by the comedy bug and thought, this is just far more entertaining than drilling for oil.Your greatest trick was going from a Ph.D. program to an Apple TV program.No one saw that coming. I certainly wouldn’t recommend that people do a Ph.D. in geophysics to become an actor. I think that’s probably the long way round. More

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    At Two Summer Festivals, Offerings That Are Gloomy and Grim

    The Salzburg Festival and the Ruhrtriennale host a series of theatrical pieces, both old and new, that seem to reflect our troubled time.ESSEN, Germany — In the constellation of Europe’s performing arts festivals, few make a more contrasting pair than the Salzburg Festival and the Ruhrtriennale.The differences begin with the events’ settings. Salzburg, Mozart’s picturesque hometown, nestled in the Alps, lies at the geographical center of Europe. The Ruhr region, Germany’s rust belt, is comparatively isolated. Salzburg boasts stunning mountain vistas, an old town and a fairy-tale castle. The Ruhr region is a linked network of drab postindustrial cities.The Salzburg Festival usually plays host to well-heeled visitors from over 80 countries, while the Ruhrtriennale caters heavily to locals with subsidized tickets.Yet for all their differences, the two festivals share some DNA.When the Flemish impresario Gerard Mortier founded the Ruhrtriennale in 2002, he was coming off a decade of shaking things up as the Salzburg Festival’s artistic director. Although his time there is now seen as a golden age, Mortier’s attempts to nudge the festival in a more artistically daring direction proved wildly contentious at the time. When Mortier arrived in the Ruhr region, his new festival gave him the opportunity to realize large-format experiments that he could never pull off at Salzburg.Two decades later, the Salzburg Festival’s roster of operas and concerts has recaptured something of the boundary-pushing and avant-garde flair of the “Mortier era.” The festival’s dramatic program, however, has struggled to keep up.A silent chorus of nude male performers in Friedrich Schiller’s “Maria Stuart” in Salzburg.Matthias Horn/Salzburg FestivalSalzburg’s outdoor production of “Jedermann,” a morality play written by Hugo von Hofmannsthal, one of the festival’s founders, is the event’s oldest tradition. In recent years, little of the Austrian poet and dramatist’s other work has been staged there. This summer, however, as part of the festival’s ongoing centenary festivities, Hofmannsthal’s “The Falun Mine” has taken center stage.Written in 1899, though never performed during its author’s lifetime, “The Falun Mine” is a ghost story composed in the pungently lyrical language of Hofmannsthal’s best early work. It tells the story of a miner beset by strange apparitions and swallowed up by a mountain on his wedding day, and is choked with symbolism, much of which remained inscrutable in the dreary production by the Swiss director Jossi Wieler.The actors declaimed their lines in a highly mannered tone from a rotating stage littered with cinder blocks. It often seemed that the play itself was buried alive under the rubble.A theatrical death knell also sounded for Salzburg’s new production of Friedrich Schiller’s “Maria Stuart.” Despite some powerful images, thanks to a silent chorus of 30 nude male performers, or a single swinging light bulb, Martin Kusej’s stripped-down staging, a coproduction with Vienna’s Burgtheater (where Kusej is the artistic director) fell flat, sabotaged by hammy overacting from nearly every member of the cast.The atmosphere of gloom and doom seemed to spread like a fog from Salzburg to the Ruhr, where a number of the region’s “cathedrals of industry” — the disused factories that have been repurposed as theaters — had a haunted quality at the start of the Ruhrtriennale.From left, Annamária Láng, Katharina Lorenz, Deborah Korley, Michael Maertens, Jan Bülow and Markus Scheumann in Barbara Frey’s “The Fall of the House of Usher,” part of the Ruhr Triennale.Matthias Horn/Ruhrtriennale This summer’s program is the first of three to be overseen by Barbara Frey, a Swiss director and the second consecutive woman to run the festival after Stefanie Carp, whose troubled tenure was cut short by the Covid-19 pandemic. Based on Frey’s work so far, she seems set on restoring the Ruhrtriennale to the provocative and artistically unpredictable spirit of its founder.In her own production of “The Fall of the House of Usher,” the edifice in question was the Maschinenhalle Zweckel, the electrical center of a former coal mine in the city of Gladbeck. In this sinister show, another coproduction with the Burgtheater, a close-knit group of eight performers narrated five of Poe’s spine-tingling tales in German, English and Hungarian. With ritualistic precision, they luxuriated in the American writer’s melancholy prose.This atmosphere of suffocating sadness turned gleefully macabre with “The Feast of the Lambs,” a musical theater work written by the Nobel Prize-winning author Elfriede Jelinek and the composer Olga Neuwirth. Based on a play by the British writer Leonora Carrington, it is, like “Usher,” a tale of madness and familial decay.Elfriede Jelinek’s “The Feast of the Lambs.”Volker Beushausen/Ruhrtriennale The directors Bush Moukarzel and Ben Kidd, of the Dublin-based theater company Dead Center, filled the cavernous Jahrhunderthalle, a former gas power plant in the city of Bochum, with an eye-popping production, complete with trippy video projections, falling snow and a blood-red lake, effectively blurring the boundaries between domestic and outdoor horrors, as well as between human and animal savagery. (You can watch a streamed performance on the festival website).As in “Usher,” the oddball spirit of “Lambs” was tethered to artistic seriousness and skill. Things looked very different for “A Divine Comedy” by Florentina Holzinger. This young Viennese choreographer has gained fame for extreme performances that deconstruct dance history and sexualized representations of the female body.Florentina Holzinger’s “A Divine Comedy” in the city of Duisburg.Katja Illner/RuhrtriennaleHer latest, Dante-inspired outing combines onstage hypnosis, athletic performances, slapstick routines, action painting and pornographic situations to no apparent end. Using the Kraftzentrale, an enormous former power plant in the city of Duisburg, Holzinger and a score of naked female performers ran riot for the better part of two hours, often to seat-rumbling music.Holzinger is part of the incoming artistic team at the Berlin Volksbühne, where “A Divine Comedy” will transfer in late September. It’s a full-on three-ring circus of horrors that was mostly just tedious. I didn’t buy Holzinger’s willfully transgressive spectacle, but apparently I was in the minority: The only thing that truly shocked me about “A Divine Comedy” was how much the audience loved it.I felt there was one artistic work at the Ruhrtriennale that connected to humanity — and it wasn’t in a theater.An installation view of Mats Staub’s “21 — Memories of Growing Up” in a turbine hall in Bochum.Sabrina Less/RuhrtriennaleOver the past decade, the Swiss artist Mats Staub has conducted hundreds of interviews with individuals of various ages and backgrounds for “21 — Memories of Growing Up,” which has been installed in a turbine hall in Bochum. Spread over 50 different stations, the video interviews provide varied reflections on maturity, independence and happiness. The project feels like an archive of human strivings and the possibility for rebirth.Renewal was the watchword at the founding of both the Salzburg Festival and the Ruhrtriennale. In 1920, that meant reclaiming and safeguarding European culture after the Great War and the loss of the Habsburg Empire; at the turn of the millennium, it meant rejuvenating a depressed, postindustrial corner of Germany.If the onstage offerings at both events this year have seemed unrelentingly grim, they have at least reflected the struggles of our time. Yet, as we cautiously adjust to living with a pandemic for the foreseeable future, we could desperately use some renewal, too.The Salzburg Festival continues through Aug. 31.The Ruhrtriennale continues through Sept. 25. More

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    Seth Meyers Wants Trump to Stop Complimenting the Taliban

    “You don’t have to give the Taliban credit for anything — they’re the Taliban!” Meyers said.Welcome to Best of Late Night, a rundown of the previous night’s highlights that lets you sleep — and lets us get paid to watch comedy. Here are the 50 best movies on Netflix right now.Very ComplimentarySeth Meyers reminded viewers Wednesday just how involved Donald Trump was with the war in Afghanistan, despite the former president insisting he would have handled things differently than President Biden. Meyers said Trump “was going out of his way to compliment the Taliban on their fighting and negotiating skills.”“You don’t have to give the Taliban credit for anything — they’re the Taliban!” Meyers said.“It’s especially insane to call them ‘good negotiators,’ like they’re trying to talk down a used-car salesman.” — SETH MEYERS“Does Trump think if he’s nice to the Taliban, they’ll hang out with him? [imitating Trump] ‘Great fighters, great negotiators, and great, great golfers. Abdul Ghani Baradar, horrible guy, but I saw him eagle a par five from the rough. We played in a foursome with Brooks Koepka and Bryson DeChambeau. And you wanna talk about warring factions, those two do not like each other!’” — SETH MEYERS“I mean, thank god this idiot wasn’t the chief of police in San Francisco during the Zodiac killings. [imitating Trump] ‘Bad guy, nasty guy, but you’ve got to give him credit for one thing: beautiful, beautiful penmanship.’” — SETH MEYERSThe Punchiest Punchlines (Pumpkin Spice Latte Edition)“And finally, as part of their new fall menu, Starbucks has added a new drink, the apple crisp macchiato. In response, the pumpkin spice latte was like, ‘Oh, it’s on.’” — JIMMY FALLON“And in gayer news, buy me some Crocs and Taylor Swift on vinyl, because baby, I’m a basic [expletive] who loves pumpkin spice latte!” — RuPaul, guest host of “Jimmy Kimmel Live”“Yes, I’m a diva diva pumpkin eater.” — RuPaul“Face it: pumpkin spice is here to stay. It’s rich, it’s naughty, just like the vocals of Ariana Grande. Oh, uh, but make mine an Ariana Venti, honey, because I can take it.” — RuPaulThe Bits Worth Watching“The Other Two” star Molly Shannon told Jimmy Fallon how Nick Jonas convinced her to finally join Instagram.What We’re Excited About on Thursday NightMichael Shannon will talk about “Nine Perfect Strangers” on Thursday’s “Late Night.”Also, Check This OutGael García Bernal, left, Maribel Verdú and Diego Luna in a scene from “Y Tu Mamá También.”IFC FilmsThe director and stars of “Y Tu Mamá También” reflect on the landmark film 20 years after its release. More

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    Micki Grant, Groundbreaking Broadway Composer, Dies at 92

    With “Don’t Bother Me, I Can’t Cope,” she became the first woman to write the book, music and lyrics of a Broadway musical.Micki Grant, who in the early 1970s became the first woman to write the book, music and lyrics of a Broadway musical, “Don’t Bother Me, I Can’t Cope,” a soulful, spirited exploration of Black life, died on Saturday in Manhattan. She was 92.Her death, at Mount Sinai Morningside hospital, was announced by Joan Allen, a family spokeswoman.Ms. Grant, an actress, composer, playwright and musician, had developed “Don’t Bother Me” for two years with the director Vinnette Carroll, taking it to small theaters in New York, Philadelphia and Washington before opening on Broadway in April 1972.She would also be known for her work on another Broadway musical, “Your Arms Too Short to Box With God,” and for her seven years on the NBC soap opera “Another World.”Set in New York City, “Don’t Bother Me” explored topics like ghetto life, Black power, feminism and student protests with an all-Black cast performing songs — all by Ms. Grant — that drew from rock, jazz, funk, blues calypso and other musical genres.Ms. Grant recalled in 2018 that she and Ms. Carroll had wanted audiences of the musical to recognize the similarities among races, not the differences.“And I think that’s expressed when you find out in the end that the audience is willing to reach out and take someone’s hand,” she said in an interview with The New York Amsterdam News. “Some people in the audience never held the hand of a person of a different race before, and all of the sudden, they’re holding another person’s hand.”The musical got rave reviews, including one from Clive Barnes of The New York Times, who wrote: “It is the unexpected that is the most delightful. Last night at the Playhouse Theater a new musical came clapping, stomping and stamping in. It is fresh, fun and Black.”The show received Tony nominations for best musical, best original score, best book (also by Ms. Grant) and best direction. It won a Grammy for best musical theater album, making Ms. Grant the first female composer to win in that category.“Don’t Bother Me” was revived in 2016 as a concert performance by the York Theater Company in Manhattan and two years later by the Encores! Off-Center series at New York City Center, directed by Savion Glover.Amber Barbee Pickens, foreground, in the Encores! production of “Don’t Bother Me, I Can’t Cope” at New York City Center in 2018. One critic said of the original Broadway production: “A new musical came clapping, stomping and stamping in. It is fresh, fun and Black.”Sara Krulwich/The New York TimesJames Morgan, York’s producing artistic director, said in a phone interview that Ms. Grant had “wanted a say in everything and would say, ‘No, that’s not how that goes.’ I’d tell her, ‘We want this to be your version of the show.’”He had been hoping to stage a full Off Broadway production of “Don’t Worry,” he said, but couldn’t raise the money. “I so wanted it for her, because there’s still a big audience for it,” he said.Ms. Grant was born Minnie Louise Perkins on June 30, 1929, in Chicago to Oscar and Gussie (Cobbins) Perkins. Her father was a barber and a self-taught pianist, her mother, a saleswoman for Stanley Home Products.Minnie was smitten by theater and music at a young age. At 8 she played the Spirit of Spring, touching flowers to bring them to life, in a community center production. She began taking piano and double-bass lessons at about the same age.And, she recalled in an interview with The Times in 1972: “I was busy writing poetry and walking around the house reciting it. My family always listened and said what nice poetry it was.”Ms. Grant began writing music at 14 or 15 and acting in community theater at 18. She studied at the Chicago School of Music and later attended the University of Illinois, Chicago.But one semester shy of graduating, she left to perform in Los Angeles, where, in 1961, she appeared in a musical revue, “Fly Blackbird,” a social satire about the evils of segregation. She moved with the show to its Off Broadway production in 1962.By then, she had changed her name to Micki.Ms. Grant made her Broadway debut a year later in a supporting role in “Tambourines to Glory,” a short-lived “gospel singing play” — written by the poet Langston Hughes with music by Jobe Huntley — about two female street preachers in Harlem. It also starred Robert Guillaume and Louis Gossett Jr. A year later she appeared in a revival of Marc Blitzstein’s musical play “The Cradle Will Rock,” set in 1937 during the Great Depression.She turned to television in 1965, beginning a seven-year run on “Another World” playing a secretary-turned-lawyer, Peggy Nolan. She is believed to have been the first Black contract player in soaps. She later had roles in the soap operas “Guiding Light,” “Edge of Night” and “All My Children.”Ms. Grant in the NBC soap opera “Another World” in 1968. She had a seven-year run on the show playing a secretary-turned-lawyer.Fred Hermansky/NBCCasey Childs, the founder of the Primary Stages Company in New York, recalled directing her in one soap opera episode. “She was an absolutely lovely actress, who understood the need on a soap to move quickly and make fast choices,” he said in an interview.During her long run on “Another World,” Ms. Grant was building a theatrical legacy with Ms. Carroll, who in 1967 founded the Urban Arts Corps to provide a showcase for Black and Puerto Rican performers.They put together the first production of “Don’t Bother Me” in 1970 at the company’s theater on West 20th Street in Manhattan. Ms. Grant also wrote the music and lyrics for a song and dance version of the Irwin Shaw novel “Bury the Dead” and for a children’s show called “Croesus and the Witch.”Working with Ms. Carroll, she said, was a “magical” experience.“It all came together so perfectly,” Ms. Grant told American Theater magazine in an interview this year. “It was a fortunate meeting between us: I needed somewhere to present my work, and she needed the new work to present because of who she was — having original works brought out her creativity, rather than trying to repeat something that was already done.”The two women also collaborated on “Your Arms Too Short to Box With God,” an acclaimed gospel-infused musical that opened on Broadway in 1976 and ran for 429 performances. Ms. Carroll wrote the book, and music and lyrics were by Alex Bradford, with additional songs by Ms. Grant.Two years later, Ms. Grant was one of the five songwriters behind the musical “Working,” which was based on the writer Studs Terkel’s book of interviews with everyday people about their jobs. The group was nominated for a Tony for best original score.In one of Ms. Grant’s songs in “Working,” a woman laments: “If I could’ve done what I could’ve done/I could’ve done big things./With some luck to do what I wanted to do/I would’ve done big things./Swam a few rivers/Climbed a few hills/Paid all my bills.”She returned to Broadway one last time, with a musical, “It’s So Nice to Be Civilized” (1980), which closed after eight performances.Her other credits include the English-language lyrics to songs in “Jacques Brel Blues,” which debuted in East Hampton, N.Y., in 1988, and “Don’t Underestimate a Nut,” a musical based on the life of George Washington Carver, the agricultural scientist who promoted the cultivation of peanuts. It was commissioned by a children’s theater in Omaha, Neb., in 1994.In the late 1990s, Ms. Grant spent two years with Lizan Mitchell on a tour of the United States and South Africa as they played the centenarian Delany sisters in “Having Our Say,” Emily Mann’s Tony Award-winning play.Ms. Grant had no immediate survivors. Her marriages to Milton Grant and Ray McCutcheon ended in divorce.When Encores! revived “Don’t Bother Me,” Ms. Grant, reflecting on its creation, said that her and Ms. Carroll’s goal had not been to produce an incendiary musical about the difficulties faced by Black people in America.“There was a lot of angry theater out there at the time, especially in the Black community — Bullins, Jones,” she said, referring to the playwrights Ed Bullins and LeRoi Jones, who became known as Amiri Baraka. “I wanted to come at it with a soft fist. I wanted to open eyes but not turn eyes away.” More

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    He’s No Longer Host. But Mike Richards Is Still Running ‘Jeopardy!’

    Defying a backlash over sexist and crude comments, a top Sony TV executive told the show’s staff that they were standing behind Mr. Richards as the executive producer.Last week, Mike Richards lost his gig as the new host of “Jeopardy!,” faced a rebuke from the Anti-Defamation League, heard an outpouring of dismay from the show’s demoralized staff, and was forced to apologize after it was revealed he made sexist and crude jokes on a podcast several years ago in which he mocked women’s appearances, unemployed workers, and the size of Jewish noses.This week, Mr. Richards is back running the show. And his bosses at Sony appear intent on keeping it that way.In a show of defiance that has baffled Hollywood, Sony Pictures Entertainment has signaled that it will keep Mr. Richards on as executive producer of “Jeopardy!” and “Wheel of Fortune.” During a call with “Jeopardy” staff on Monday, Sony’s top TV executive, Ravi Ahuja, made clear that the studio supported Mr. Richards, according to several people briefed on the call who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss internal conversations.Mr. Ahuja praised Mr. Richards for his willingness to step down from the hosting job, saying it was the right move for “Jeopardy!,” and signaled that he expected the crew to move forward from last week’s uproar with Mr. Richards in charge, the people said.He lamented the media coverage of Mr. Richards and instructed the staff not to speak to reporters. Mr. Ahuja also invoked his own upbringing as an Indian-American who grew up in Mississippi in the 1970s, where he said he faced racially offensive remarks, to emphasize that he was sensitive to concerns about Mr. Richards’s crude comments, the people said.Mr. Richards has agreed to undergo sensitivity training, the people said.On the call, Mr. Richards apologized again for his behavior and asked for an opportunity to prove “who he really is,” according to his spokesman, Ed Tagliaferri.Mr. Tagliaferri also swatted away the notion that Mr. Richards might be negotiating an exit from Sony, saying, “Mike is committed to continuing as the executive producer of ‘Jeopardy!’ and ‘Wheel of Fortune.’”Sony has tapped a veteran business and legal affairs executive at the studio, Suzanne Prete, to oversee Mr. Richards at the show and “take more of an active presence on the creative direction and strategy.” Sony said that the new role for Ms. Prete, who will also oversee the business side of the show, was planned before last week’s uproar. She will report to Mr. Ahuja.Sony declined to make Mr. Ahuja available for an interview. Mr. Richards is back on set this week taping episodes with Mayim Bialik, who has temporarily taken over weekday hosting duties. A Sony spokeswoman referred to a statement issued last week, in which Sony expressed “hope” that Mr. Richards would carry out his producing duties “with professionalism and respect.”Sony has assigned a veteran business and legal affairs executive at the studio, Suzanne Prete, to oversee Mr. Richards’s work on “Jeopardy!” and “Wheel of Fortune.”Beth Coller for The New York TimesHollywood insiders had widely expected Mr. Richards and Sony to be negotiating his exit after a report in The Ringer revealed a string of past offensive comments. In a podcast he recorded in 2013 and 2014, while serving as executive producer of “The Price Is Right,” Mr. Richards called his female co-host a “booth slut” because she once worked as a model at a consumer trade show, asked if she had “booby pics” on her cellphone, mocked women who wear one-piece swimsuits as “really frumpy and overweight” and referred to stereotypes about Jews and large noses.Former employees of “The Price Is Right” had also filed lawsuits that accused Mr. Richards of making sexist and misogynist comments on-set, including balking when a model he had hired for the show revealed she was pregnant with twins. (Mr. Richards disputes those claims.)Some “Jeopardy!” fans were already skeptical of Mr. Richards, a virtually unknown figure who was named as Alex Trebek’s replacement despite helping to oversee the host audition process.Sony says it made its decision independently of Mr. Richards. But as executive producer, he had a hand in choosing the footage of each candidate that was screened for focus groups.Meredith Vieira, the former “Today” show star, was one television personality who was eager to try out as a guest host. But she was not offered an audition, with the studio saying it was not interested in anyone currently hosting another game show, according to three people familiar with the audition process who spoke on condition of anonymity. (Ms. Vieira hosts a syndicated show based on a board game called “25 Words or Less.”)Mr. Richards, an experienced game show host himself, was hired by Sony in 2019 from “The Price Is Right,” a tired franchise that Mr. Richards helped revive with Drew Carey as host. (Mr. Richards also auditioned for that hosting job.) He became executive producer of “Jeopardy!” last year, replacing Harry Friedman, an under-the-radar figure who exercised near-complete control of the program over a 25-year tenure.“Jeopardy!” is one of the more profitable assets in Sony’s American entertainment portfolio, but picking Mr. Richards as the host came with an added financial benefit. As a relatively obscure figure, he would command a smaller salary than better-known contenders like LeVar Burton or Anderson Cooper. Mr. Richards’s compensation as host and executive producer was believed to be significantly lower than Mr. Trebek’s pay.A segment of “Jeopardy!” viewers and aspiring contestants has expressed dissatisfaction with the decision to keep Mr. Richards as executive producer — some going so far as to re-evaluate their interest in the show because of his behavior.“If it was enough to disqualify him from being host,” said Jon Porobil, a 35-year-old “Jeopardy!” fan from Pittsburgh, “why isn’t it enough to disqualify him from being executive producer?”Matt Cappiello, 34, has taken the “Jeopardy!” entrance test multiple times, hoping to fulfill a lifelong dream of appearing on the show. But because of the controversy over Mr. Richards, he is now reconsidering.“It tarnished the reputation of the show for me,” said Mr. Cappiello, a copywriter who watches the show nightly from a bar in Brooklyn. “‘Jeopardy!’ is supposed to be a celebration of knowledge, and it’s being run by this guy who’s the personification of ignorance.”For all the criticism, Mr. Richards does have some supporters.Gwendolyn Osborne, a model who worked on “The Price Is Right” for more than 12 years and considers herself a friend of Mr. Richards, said she was shocked to learn about his podcast comments, saying they did not align with his behavior as a boss. Contrary to the behavior alleged in the pregnancy-discrimination lawsuit, she recalled that Mr. Richards supported her when she returned to work from maternity leave, and then years later when she became pregnant again.“I have reached out to him to tell him to continue to believe in his greatnesses, and that I do believe that everybody is worthy of redemption,” she said in an interview. More

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    She Wrote the History of ‘Jeopardy!’ Then She Changed It.

    The reporting of Claire McNear, a journalist who had written a book on the game show, helped end Mike Richards’s hopes of succeeding Alex Trebek as its host.Two days before the journalist Claire McNear published her book, which was billed as a “definitive history” of “Jeopardy!,” its beloved host, Alex Trebek, died of pancreatic cancer, thrusting the game show into a period of uncertainty unlike any its staff had ever seen.McNear’s 2020 book, “Answers in the Form of Questions,” had argued that “Jeopardy!,” a television staple that first premiered in 1964, was on the precipice of significant change, with some key figures who had helped shape the show for decades stepping back.But the loss of Trebek in November raised a new existential question for the show: Could “Jeopardy!” continue to be a success without its trusted, even-keeled captain, who had been its face for more than 36 years?For McNear, one of the most critical chapters in the show’s history had just begun.Nine months later, McNear’s report for The Ringer on the man who had been chosen to succeed Trebek — the show’s executive producer, Mike Richards — would change the course of that history.McNear had listened to all 41 episodes of a podcast that Richards had recorded in 2013 and 2014, when he was executive producer on “The Price Is Right,” and discovered that he had made a number of offensive and sexist comments, including asking two young women who worked on the podcast whether they had ever taken nude photos, and referring to a stereotype about Jews and large noses.Days after the story was published, Richards, 46, resigned from his role as host, saying that the show did not need the distraction. Sony, which produces the show, said he would remain as executive producer. (Mayim Bialik, the sitcom star who had been tapped to host prime-time “Jeopardy!” specials, will temporarily take over weeknight hosting duties.)In an interview, McNear, 32, who writes about sports and culture for The Ringer, discussed her personal relationship to “Jeopardy!,” the impact of her reporting and the show’s future. The conversation has been edited and condensed.McNear Alyssa Schukar for The New York TimesEvery “Jeopardy!” fan has their own early memories of the show and a story of what drew them to it. Why did this show become so important to you?I was never one of those superfans who would watch every single night and know all the statistics and the pantheon of all the greatest players. I had watched it with my parents growing up, but I was not one of those hard-core people. It wasn’t until my fiancé and I moved in together, about five years ago, that we got cable — it was the first time I had cable since I was a little kid. And I remember having this light-bulb moment: “Oh my God, we can record ‘Jeopardy!’ every night.” And because of my day job, I started getting to write about it.Two weeks ago, the big hosting announcement dropped: Richards had been chosen. Knowing what you knew about him at the time, what was your reaction to the decision?As I had started to write about “Jeopardy!” more and watch it more seriously, I learned more about the world. I met the fans; I met the people who make the show. And I kept hearing things from people close to the show: that the host-search process might not have been as aboveboard as the way that it was being described publicly, and a number of staff members had fairly grave concerns about him. I wanted to know more about his past and his genesis as a television personality because he had been really open about the fact that, in addition to producing, he wanted to host.What led you to his podcast?He has talked about it in interviews but also, literally, it’s listed — or at least it was — in his official Jeopardy.com bio, that he hosted a comedy news show as a college student called “The Randumb Show.” And I tried to find as much as I could about that show, but it was all taped in the ’90s. It did lead me to the podcast with the exact same name, which is the one that he hosted as the executive producer of “The Price Is Right.”So you’re sitting there listening to these episodes. At what point do you start to become unsettled by his comments?It became extremely clear to me very quickly that those things were kind of dotted throughout the episode: He uses sexist language; he uses ableist language; he uses ugly slurs and stereotypes. There’s a lot of stuff that we did not transcribe in the story that is in there and paints this broader picture of what “The Price Is Right” was like as a workplace. And he was the co-executive producer at the time — he was the boss, and he was mostly just talking to his employees.How long did it take to listen to all 41 episodes?What I will say is it was not a terribly glamorous reporting process. I live in Washington, D.C., and there was one point a couple weeks ago where my air-conditioning broke overnight. And so I spent the whole next day sitting in my living room with an ice pack on my stomach, listening to Mike Richards’s podcast episodes. It was not like what they show in the movies.You wrote in your book that when Trebek first started as host in 1984, fans were actually wary of him following Art Fleming’s run. Do you think fans would accept any new host of “Jeopardy!” with enthusiasm right now?I think Sony was always going to be in a difficult place because it’s not going to be Alex Trebek. Fleming was this sort of genial, affable, friendly guy who was very upfront about not knowing the answers to any of the clues and he was just happy to be there and he needed the sheet in front of him. And then of course, Alex Trebek cultivated this image that he could probably beat all the contestants on any given night. He was this very erudite figure who got all his pronunciations just so. There were fans that didn’t like that at first because they loved the Art Fleming version of the show. I think that does speak to the fact that “Jeopardy!” fans might struggle with a new host — any host — but there’s certainly a history of people coming to admire even a very different host of “Jeopardy!”Trebek always said that it’s the game, not him, that kept viewers coming back. With all you’ve seen over the past eight months, do you think that’s proving to be true?It’s important to note that as much as there has been all this change at “Jeopardy!,” there are also a lot of things that are exactly the same as they have been for years. A lot of the people who work there have been there for decades and spent their entire professional life making “Jeopardy!”The “Jeopardy!” machinery is mostly intact and unchanged. But I think there is a great amount of sadness and fear among “Jeopardy!” fans and among the “Jeopardy!” staff that this whole episode with Mike Richards has damaged this universal appeal that it’s had for all these decades, that it was this totally neutral space that was not partisan. It was never flashy; it was never trying to get in the headlines or be the thing that you debated over dinner. And now it very much is, and it’s possible that when they do bring in a permanent host, people will talk about it a bunch at the beginning, and then it will just kind of settle back down to being the same old “Jeopardy!” But it’s possible that it’s lost that sheen of being unimpeachable. More

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    Rosie Perez Hates Flying, but She Soared in ‘The Flight Attendant’

    The HBO Max show brought the veteran performer her first acting Emmy nomination. “To be recognized now, at my age, for something that I did just for the art of it all?” she said. “That really moves me.”Voting is underway for the 73rd Primetime Emmys, and this week we’re talking to several first-time Emmy nominees (at least for acting, in this case; Rosie Perez had been previously nominated, but as a choreographer). The awards will be presented Sept. 19 on CBS.This interview includes spoilers for “The Flight Attendant.”On Rosie Perez’s third day of production on the HBO Max series “The Flight Attendant,” she was shooting a scene in which several characters congregated in an airplane’s galley. As the director Susanna Fogel set up a shot, she asked Perez to turn toward the camera because “we can’t see your face.”“I know,” Perez replied. “I want to seem invisible.”She had a personal reason for this acting strategy. Now in her mid-50s, she understands a thing or two about the plight of menopausal women, some of whom have an acute sense of losing themselves, of their diminishing social value and relevancy. Perez recalled how difficult it was to acknowledge her own menopause onset — to come to terms with the hormonal imbalance and the way it made her feel.“I was like, ‘Why am I a nervous wreck all the time?’” she said. “‘Why do I have so much anxiety? Why am I questioning my life? What is going on?’”“It’s a strange, strange feeling,” she added.She wanted to bring those conflicted feelings to her character, Megan Briscoe, and the show’s writers and producers agreed to incorporate the idea. She told them: “I don’t ever want you to mention the fact that Megan is menopausal. I just want to play it.”This surprise acting choice provided a better rationale for her character to keep a nervous eye on her fellow flight attendant Cassie (Kaley Cuoco), a hot mess who has gotten embroiled in a mysterious conspiracy. And it set up a more sympathetic view of Megan’s own dangerous situation after a series of poor decisions leads her to accidentally commit treason.It also inspired one of the showrunners, Steve Yockey, to pen an “invisible woman” speech for Perez to deliver in the season finale, in a poignant scene that likely helped secure Perez her first Emmy nomination as an actor. (She was nominated three times as a choreographer for her work on the early ’90s sketch show “In Living Color.”)“I get choked up thinking about it now,” Perez said of the additional material she was given. “These moments don’t always come to me, as a brown woman. And when they come, you better deliver because, baby, you want to make it count.”Perez previously made the most of her moments in films like “Do the Right Thing” and “White Men Can’t Jump,” and her performance in the plane crash drama “Fearless” brought Oscar and Golden Globe nominations — an experience she now recalls with some ambivalence. She talked about it in a phone conversation from Spain, where she was shooting the upcoming Apple TV+ series “Now and Then,” and she also discussed “The Flight Attendant,” her moving monologue and her former life as a dancer and choreographer. These are edited excerpts from the conversation.You initially turned down “The Flight Attendant,” partly because you hate flying. Where did this fear come from?Two things. One, I hate traveling, and it doesn’t just pertain to flying on airplanes. I think it’s because of my childhood, traveling back and forth from the home [St. Joseph’s Catholic Home for Children in Peekskill, N.Y.] to Brooklyn to Puerto Rico, then back to Brooklyn and back to the home. I just couldn’t stand it. It gives me anxiety, which I’ve been working on with my psychiatrist. It’s getting better, slowly but surely.The second thing is that when I did “Fearless,” I was really traumatized. When we were filming in the cornfields, it felt so real and so shocking to me. The research I did on plane crashes heightened everything.You caught Covid-19 while shooting the show in Bangkok, early on in the pandemic. Did that affect your performance?It was scary being in a foreign country and getting sick to that magnitude. I remember being carted into the I.C.U. I remember telling people: “Don’t let me die in Bangkok. Please tell my husband.” Those were my initial thoughts, and then the isolation and the worry. The head of I.C.U. was telling me that I had this new unknown virus, that people were dying from it. I had been sickly as a child, but this was on a whole different level.That said, did it affect my performance? No. It affected my flying because I was even more paranoid, and I had to fly from Bangkok back to New York for “The Flight Attendant,” then to Brazil and Los Angeles for “Birds of Prey,” then to New York and Rome for more “Flight Attendant,” then to Utah for “The Last Thing He Wanted,” then to London for “Birds of Prey” press, then back to New York. I was a nervous wreck!It was comforting to have work, so I was able to just let it go and feed it back into Megan. And I was already there. By my third day of filming, I was able to tell the showrunners, “I know you think Megan is this, but I think she’s that.”What do you mean?What I could bring to Megan is how I felt turning 50, how I felt having hormonal imbalances. You question everything. If you’re not happy, if you don’t have happiness around you, you’re going to go out and buy a new car, or in Megan’s case, you’re going to start working for North Korea. [Laughs] Something is going to manifest itself.I wanted Megan to be too eager to participate. Everyone else is young, except her. My character is trying her hardest to be the person in charge, to be mature, but she wants to be Cassie, as messed up as Cassie is. I wanted Megan’s nervousness and anxiety to be conveyed through her smile, or asking, “What’s going on with Cassie?” Usually when you make suggestions like that, you get pushback, but the showrunners said OK to this idea. I was like: “Oh my god! Thank you!” Because what rational 50-year-old woman would idolize Cassie? She’s a train wreck! And that was the whole point.Is that how the “invisible woman” speech came about? Did they incorporate the idea into the script?I remember Steve Yockey going, [imitates a teasing singsong voice], “You’re going to love Episode 8.” When I got the script, I couldn’t stop crying. I remember calling Steve, sobbing, saying, “Thank you, thank you.” I didn’t ask them to write it in. They just actually listened to what I was saying and doing.That scene happened to be my last day of shooting. I was so filled with emotion, and I looked at Kaley, and she said: “Don’t do it, Perez. Don’t you cry yet! You’re going to make me cry!” We both started laughing. Then we both sat down on the bed. We didn’t discuss how we were going to do that scene. They said, “Action!” and bam! We got it on the first take. It was magic.When I get these kinds of chances as an actor, it just fills my heart with joy. I told my husband: “I’m going to work so hard on this show. I don’t even care if no one sees it.” He said, “That makes no sense.” I said: “It does, though. I did this one for myself.” If people enjoy it, that’s just icing on the cake with a cherry on top because there have been multiple times where I was never recognized for my work. To be recognized now, at my age, for something that I did just for the art of it all? That really moves me. It’s like when my husband goes, “Yeah, but you were nominated for an Emmy before,” and I go, “Yeah, but this is for acting.”You were nominated three times as a choreographer for “In Living Color.”I think I was a little before my time. Hip-hop was not new to me, or to New York, but it was new to the world. And I think that classism and racism came into play, where they downplayed my ability as a choreographer. They didn’t think it was hard work and real creativity. I had to come up with eight to 10 different routines a week. That’s insane!I was blown away by the Emmy nominations for “In Living Color.” The first time I was nominated, [the “In Living Color” creator, Keenen Ivory Wayans,] told me, “You should have won.” I said, “But I’m at the Emmys, Keenen!” He was like, “You’re the happiest loser I’ve ever known.” And I said: “We’re putting hip-hop on the map. How big is that?” To be one of the pioneers? Wow.And then because of this acting nomination, people are asking me: “You were nominated before as a choreographer? You were a dancer?” And I’m like, “Yeah, I was.” [Laughs.]Do you have conflicted feelings about the Academy Award nomination you got for supporting actress for “Fearless”? You talked recently about how the Academy never invited you back to the ceremony.I never mentioned it for years until somebody else brought it up. It’s not like I would sit there and cry about it. It was more of a feeling like, “Wow, that’s just so [expletive] up,” because it wasn’t only about me. It was about every other brown-skinned girl. When I saw my girls Viola Davis and Halle Berry win, I was screaming my head off, I was so happy for them. I just told the Academy Awards: “Well, OK, you didn’t invite me back. All right. That’s on you, honey.”I think the other part of why I wasn’t invited back is that I don’t know how to play the game. I don’t schmooze. But a lot of [awards season] is campaigning and who do you know. The silver lining of this horrible pandemic is that I don’t have to leave the house. I can do interviews, meet the other nominees and all that stuff, and I don’t have to get dressed up or do my hair! It’s such a blessing because I don’t do well in those Hollywood settings. I’m getting better, but it’s just a little overwhelming for me.Being nominated for the Oscars and the Golden Globes, I wasn’t ready. I didn’t fully appreciate what was going on. So many journalists asked me: “This is weird. This is a fluke, isn’t it, that you got nominated?” That just angered me to the point where I became numb to the whole process. My anxiety and depression took over and kind of shut down the joy of it all. Now that I’ve addressed my mental health issues, and I’ve been in therapy for so long, I’m able to embrace the joy.Someone recently asked me, “Don’t you feel like this [Emmy nomination] is like, ‘Aha! Look at me now!’” And I don’t. In the grand scheme of things, this is small potatoes compared to the hell I went through as a child. The things that people take for granted — moments of joy and happiness — are like a ticker-tape parade for me, every day. I get to do what I do. I have a wonderful home, a wonderful husband, good friends and good family members. I don’t have to worry about being poor.My husband says, “That’s so simplistic.” And I say, “But life is that simplistic.” It really is. You come from the depths of hell, and you rise up like a phoenix. I don’t want to show off; I just want to fly. More

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    Moses Ingram Knows You Wanted to See More Jolene

    The “Queen’s Gambit” actress was nominated for her first Emmy this year. It was her first major role out of drama school.Voting is underway for the 73rd Primetime Emmys, and this week we’re talking to several first-time Emmy nominees. The awards will be presented Sept. 19 on CBS.Moses Ingram realized how big “The Queen’s Gambit” was going to be when somebody tattooed her face on their body. Netflix released the series on Oct. 23, and by around November, a Brazilian man had sent Ingram a picture of his new tattoo.“I mean, I know it’s not about me; it’s more about Jolene,” Ingram said. “But it’s still my face. So it was like, ‘I’m happy you’re happy with it?’”Ingram plays Jolene, a rebellious teenager at the Methuen Home, an orphanage for girls, who becomes the closest childhood friend of the protagonist, Beth Harmon (played by, at different ages, Annabeth Kelly, Isla Johnston and Anya Taylor-Joy). The performance earned Ingram an Emmy nomination for outstanding supporting actress in a limited or anthology series or movie, her first nomination for a major award.She said she was shocked when she got the call about the nomination. She wasn’t watching the Emmys announcement, nor did she know it was happening that day. She was just on her way to work.Her reaction was perhaps best captured in her Instagram post from that day: a throwback photo of Ingram as a child, looking absolutely flabbergasted, with the caption, “They said I’m what 🤯.”Ingram attended Baltimore School for the Arts, and class trips to local productions of plays like “A Raisin in the Sun” showed her that acting could be a career. After earning an associate degree at Baltimore City Community College, she attended Yale School of Drama. She auditioned for the role of Jolene fresh out of drama school.While viewers were drawn to the character, many wanted more of her — and more nuanced story lines. Some critics viewed Jolene as veering “dangerously into ‘guardian angel’ and ‘magical Negro’ trope territory,” referring to Black characters whose only apparent purpose is to aid and enlighten white protagonists.A monologue in the last episode seemed to anticipate this criticism. As Jolene offers to loan Beth the $3,000 she needs to travel to a chess tournament in Moscow, she explains: “I’m not your guardian angel. I’m not here to save you. Hell, I can barely save me. I’m here because you need me to be here. It’s what family does. That’s what we are.” But some viewers still saw a Black woman given too little screen time and not enough character development.Ingram has stayed busy since the release of “The Queen’s Gambit,” scoring roles in Joel Coen’s “The Tragedy of Macbeth” (debuting at the New York Film Festival this fall), the Michael Bay-directed action thriller “Ambulance” and the “Star Wars” mini-series “Obi-Wan Kenobi.”Speaking on her way to the “Obi-Wan Kenobi” set in Los Angeles, Ingram discussed her first love, her first audition and her first major role. These are edited excerpts from the conversation.You have said that plays like “A Raisin in the Sun” and “Hurt Village” made a strong impression on you in high school because they made “the hood beautiful.” Did they change your view of acting and drama?Definitely, because I had never seen plays. It wasn’t something that was normal to me until I went to a school that made it a point for us to go and see live performances.And up until that point, everything I had seen was white people. It was like “Long Day’s Journey Into Night” and Tennessee Williams and all of those kinds of things. So seeing people that looked like me, just looking like they were just living onstage — I didn’t even know.I mean, I knew I liked acting, but I didn’t really know it was a possibility until I was like: “Oh, people really do this! I could do this.”How was the transition from Baltimore City Community College to Yale? Did you feel any impostor syndrome?Absolutely. For the longest time, I walked around just sort of like, — I don’t know, I just felt like I had to work super hard. And I think I put more stress on myself than I needed to because I felt like I had to prove my worthiness of being there. Like, anything I was offered, I had to do because I had to be grateful.So I spent a lot of time that first year — and second year, honestly — just very drained. Because I was pushing way harder than I needed to. But I also had fun, so it wasn’t all bad.“The Queen’s Gambit” was your first audition after drama school. How did it feel to find success so quickly after such a hard road to get there?I felt really blessed, and I felt really relieved. Obviously, I had no idea what the show was going to do. I was just really happy to have a job and to be working, and to get to go to Germany on top of all of that. It felt nice to not have to worry because I spent a lot of time worrying about going backward, back to where I was before. So it really freed my mind up some, for a little while.The early part of the show is set in Kentucky, and Jolene has a very distinctive voice — literally and figuratively. Did you have any models or study anything to make it sound more authentic?One of the main things our vocal coach wanted to push, at least for me, was opening up the vowels more. But it wasn’t something I had to think super hard about because my natural tendency draws south. So she just wanted to take it from south to west.Unlike Beth, Jolene is played by the same actress from start to finish. What did you do to reflect her advancing age?I think especially with young Jolene, it was more about the freedom: freedom of what you say and your mouth and how you think. Really just unrestricted. And then also freedom in the body, just loose.Having no real structure, you’re hunching, you’re leaning, and you don’t really know what it’s like to be really in your body yet. So I think the main distinction going into adult Jolene was really solidly and firmly being in that body and confidently being woman.Unlike the character Beth, who was portrayed by three different actors, Jolene was played by Ingram throughout the series.NetflixDo you see any of yourself in Jolene?If anything I probably see myself more in young Jolene. At least at a period in my life. Just sort of rough around the edges. And, like, even if your way of doing things does not seem like it’s the best way to other people, it’s like: “Well, it’s my way, and it’s working for me now, and I’m going to let it work until it doesn’t. And that’s going to have to be fine.” I think, at a point in time, I very much was that younger version. I think I’m still working toward older Jolene’s pizazz.People have very mixed feelings about Jolene. You’ve acknowledged in previous interviews that she is a supporting character while also saying that we still need more stories where actors of color aren’t just supporting. Have you found that in any of the current projects you’ve been working on?It’s hard for people to accept that Jolene is a supporting character, I think because she is Black. If Jolene was white, I do not think it would be as much of a talking point. I think because of the story that my skin tells, there just naturally has to be an extra layer of care around storytelling, and what certain things look like. Optics play a huge role because when I walk into things, there are just certain realities.This is not me saying that supporting characters are not appropriate for people who look like me. That’s not what I’m saying. But the point — which with time I’ve been able to articulate better because I’ve been just watching that whole thing unfold — is that there has to be extra care around storytelling with Black bodies.Since leaving drama school, it’s been one series or movie after another for you. Do you plan to return to theater at some point?It’s absolutely my first love. And when I started, it was my only intention. It wasn’t until I got to school that I was like, “Oh, there are more” — I mean, obviously, I watched TV but my way in, before going to school, was theater.So I love the theater. It’s my first home, and I hope to get back to it sooner than later. I don’t want to get too far away from it. I think I’ll get scared if I wait too long. More