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    Henry Kissinger, Often Impersonated and Skewered by Sketch Comics

    Countless depictions on “Saturday Night Live” and beyond cast light on the idiosyncrasies and vanities of this diplomatic hard liner.In a November 1976 episode of “Saturday Night Live,” Gilda Radner, in her recurring impression of Barbara Walters — a.k.a. Baba Wawa — interviews Henry Kissinger, played by John Belushi. After inquiring about his “silly, silly” accent, which she says “really, really irritates” her, Radner asks Belushi to repeat after her: “I am a really, really fat, roly poly diplomat.” He does.The sketch includes a joke about Kissinger’s German-Jewish background. In a 1987 episode of “S.N.L.,” his religion comes up again in a sketch called “The Assimilated Jew’s Hanukkah.” In it, Al Franken imitates Kissinger, who is selling an album of Jewish Christmas songs. “Dozens of your favorite Christmas songs with lyrics a responsible Jew can feel comfortable singing,” he says — songs like “Silent Eight Nights” and “White Yom Tov.”After Kissinger’s death on Wednesday at 100 years old, Franken posted a memory on social media that referred to an American bombing campaign in North Vietnam in December 1972: “Kissinger called SNL once late on a Friday night looking for tix for his son. The Stones were playing that week. I told him that if it hadn’t been for the Xmas bombing, he’d have the tickets.”It is of little surprise that Kissinger, a polarizing figure who advised 12 American presidents and was the most powerful secretary of state of the postwar era, has been skewered and caricatured by comics for decades. His pronounced accent and manner of speaking were primed for satire, as was how he would regularly make statements that he seemed to think were quite profound but many found trite or ingratiating. (“Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac,” for instance.) He also appeared to be an irresistible target to those on the left in particular, who perceived him as an attention-seeking egotist and seemed to relish taking him down a peg by casting him as silly, albeit sinister.In the 1980s, the British comedy troupe Monty Python released a song titled “Henry Kissinger.” Among its lyrics: “You’re the doctor of my dreams/with your crinkly hair/and your glassy stare/and your Machiavellian schemes/I know they say that you are very vain/and short and fat and pushy/but at least you’re not insane.”In 1983, on “SCTV,” Eugene Levy took a drunken, stumblebum approach to Kissinger in a sketch that had him appear as a guest on a fictional late-night show hosted by Sammy Maudlin (Joe Flaherty). “I don’t want to talk about Watergate,” he says belligerently. “I don’t want to talk about Richard Nixon. He was a great president. He will go down as one of the great presidents in history. What do you know about Richard Nixon?” he yells, slamming his fist on the desk.At the start of the 2015 documentary “Call Me Lucky” about his life, the comedian and political satirist Barry Crimmins is seen giving a speech at an antiwar rally in Boston Common in 1990. “They tell us it’s not another Vietnam, and then they wheel out Henry Kissinger to tell us about it!” he yells before asking, “What, was Goebbels unavailable that day?” in reference to the Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels. Switching into a Kissinger voice, Crimmins says, “We must be very careful or war will be averted.”In 2015, Crimmins told The New Yorker that he was once in a green room with Kissinger, where he avoided being introduced. “I have a policy about not shaking hands with war criminals,” Crimmins said. Aside from being a guest in 2014, Kissinger himself made appearances in sketches (which drew pointed criticism) on “The Colbert Report,” Stephen Colbert’s satirical news program on Comedy Central in which he portrayed a conservative blowhard caricature for nine years. In 2013, Colbert danced to Daft Punk’s “Get Lucky” through various scenes that featured several stars and notable names, including Bryan Cranston, Jeff Bridges, the Rockettes and Kissinger, who picks up the phone and calls security.Years earlier, in 2006, Kissinger weighed in on a rock music contest in which Colbert and Peter Frampton competed against the Decemberists. In the episode, Kissinger said, “It’s time to rock,” and “I think the American people won.” In 2013, in an event at the New York Comedy Festival, Colbert said that Kissinger was also supposed to say, “Where are my pancakes? I was promised pancakes,” but he didn’t appreciate the line. “We have the tape of him reading the copy,” Colbert said, “and then he goes, ‘That is too much,’” quoting him with his accent.Jason Zinoman More

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    Two New Books Consider Comedy and the Culture Wars

    The authors of “Comedy Book” and “Outrageous” argue that culture-war worries about what’s a laughing matter have been overplayed.COMEDY BOOK: How Comedy Conquered Culture — and the Magic That Makes It Work, by Jesse David FoxOUTRAGEOUS: A History of Showbiz and the Culture Wars, by Kliph NesteroffDid you hear the one about cancel culture?Of course you did, several times over, if you’ve paid any attention to modern comedy and its purveyors, many of whom have groused about how hard it is to be funny in today’s climate. But two new books share an exasperation with the common sentiment that there’s never been a worse time to express oneself than the present. Taking them, well, seriously can liberate us from repeating the past.Kliph Nesteroff’s fact-packed “Outrageous: A History of Showbiz and the Culture Wars” finds American entertainers in a perpetual state of despair over the censorious climate of their day — whatever day it happens to be. Steve Allen, the original host of “The Tonight Show,” complained about the “very touchy times” in 1955; in 2015, Jerry Seinfeld said he’d been warned away from playing colleges because of students’ sensitivities.Social media “gives the impression that people are more irrational, humorless and overly sensitive than in the past,” Nesteroff writes, but vintage letters to the editor contain “remarkably similar” sentiments.To Jesse David Fox, the author of “Comedy Book,” the risk of backlash is part of the point. Fox, a senior editor at New York magazine’s Vulture and a podcaster who regularly interviews comedians, puts it this way: “Does political correctness make comedy harder to do? Sure, in the sense that it would be easier to run for a touchdown if you didn’t have to worry about holding the ball, but that’s the game. It’s what makes it more exciting than watching a bunch of men sprinting with helmets on.” This is just one example of Fox’s keen insight in his energetic and wise book, which focuses on the ’90s and beyond, when, the author reckons, comedy became an “ever-present, important, valued societal force.” (Fox points out that before “Seinfeld” premiered in 1989, no comedian had ever headlined a show at Madison Square Garden’s arena, yet by the time he wrote his book, 18 had.) Within broadly named chapters (“Truth,” “Context,” “Audience”), he crams vivid examples; his “Timing” section, which explores 9/11 jokes and the notion of “too soon,” is particularly adept at illustrating the use of humor in the face of tragedy.Like many of his subjects, Fox knows his way around a pointed one-liner. “A roast might sound mean, but it’s another way of saying ‘I see you’” is one. “If you are saying supposedly offensive things and the audience is instantly all onboard, it is not a comedy show, it’s a rally” is another. That such rigorous thinking should at one point lead him to defend an Adam Sandler poop joke is a great gag in itself.Fox is allergic to the kind of snobbery directed at broad comedy, maintaining that “if it’s funny to anyone, it’s funny.” Still, he’s interested in parameters — how “8:46,” Dave Chappelle’s Netflix monologue inspired by the murder of George Floyd, functions as “a piece of work in conversation with the history of comedy,” and why the same comedian’s jokes targeting queer people fall short.Comedy, Fox writes, is fundamentally play, and in his deft hands, the analysis of comedy can be playful, too. Fox knows that grand pronouncements on what makes funny things funny is dicey territory: “The sense of what is funny is so subjective — so completely built into your person — that it feels objective,” he writes.His own life experiences and tastes are integral to his reporting. The first and last chapters of the book recount the deaths of immediate family members, which, he says, comedy helped him process. “Comedy Book” is not the definitive history of the past three-plus decades. It’s Fox’s history, and better for it.“Outrageous,” the product of herculean research, has a wider purview than just comedy. Nesteroff touches on rock ’n’ roll, talk radio, the initial blowback received by early critics of Hitler and more.However, what does and doesn’t, should and shouldn’t, make us laugh does take up a lot of space (Nesteroff’s 2015 “The Comedians” is a full-fledged history of the form). Sometimes the laughs are inadvertent, as in a 1959 complaint from a viewer of the TV series “Lassie” who compared its portrayal of a litter of puppies to a sex show.In no-frills prose, Nesteroff races through some two centuries of expression and backlash — from blackface minstrelsy (criticized early on by Frederick Douglass) to the (formerly Dixie) Chicks (the country music trio whose titanic profile shrank several sizes after its lead singer publicly criticized President George W. Bush) — rarely pausing for analysis and sometimes breezing by useful context. The book tends to home in on the moment when each brouhaha reached a fever pitch, which can give a distorted picture of the controversies and their ensuing fallouts.“Outrageous” is nonetheless a useful compendium. Placing so many outrages next to one another exposes a call-and-response pattern, in which both sides of the political divide have tried to dictate acceptable speech for all. We may be partial to the intentions of one side, but the mechanics often look identical.Unsurprisingly, it’s those already in power who often succeed. If there is a main character in Nesteroff’s sea of stories, it’s Paul Weyrich, a John Birch Society alum who helped build “an elaborate Culture War infrastructure” with corporate cash and evangelical muscle, eventually cofounding the Heritage Foundation and the Moral Majority.In sometimes clandestine ways, those groups have had a major impact in seeding American culture with conservative ideology, raging against what Weyrich called “the Cultural Marxism of an elite few to dictate words, language and opinions” while, Nesteroff writes, doing precisely that.“Outrageous” portrays a country divided; there’s no shortage of strife in Fox’s book, but he believes fundamentally in the unifying power of comedy, which “smooths conflicts and unites disparate groups.” His faith is contagious. Comedy is not stifled, he argues, but has “enmeshed itself in how millennials and now Gen Z communicate.” Superstars like Chappelle and Amy Schumer are endowed with the kind of trusted status once reserved for those in the purported truth business, like journalists, public intellectuals and politicians.“Can comedy make everything all better?” Fox asks in conclusion. “Of course not. But it makes it easier.”COMEDY BOOK: How Comedy Conquered Culture — and the Magic That Makes It Work | More

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    Rob Reiner Teases Details of ‘Spinal Tap’ Sequel

    Speaking on a podcast this week, the director said Paul McCartney and Elton John will appear in the film, among other real musical stars.The director Rob Reiner has said that an upcoming sequel to his 1984 documentary parody “This Is Spinal Tap” is scheduled to begin shooting in late February and will feature Paul McCartney, Elton John and Garth Brooks, among other stars.“Spinal Tap” satirized a bungled tour by a fictitious British heavy-metal band of that name, as well as the process of documenting it. The film, which was mostly improvised, was inspired by “The Last Waltz,” a Martin Scorsese documentary about the rock group the Band.Plans for “Spinal Tap II” were first announced last year. The entertainment news outlet Deadline reported at the time that the members of the fictitious band — the actors Christopher Guest, Michael McKean and Harry Shearer — would all return for the sequel. Over the years, the three have played real-life concerts as their Spinal Tap characters.Reiner announced new details about the “Spinal Tap” sequel during an episode of a podcast hosted by the comedian Richard Herring that was released on Monday. The film had initially been scheduled for release in 2024, but that was before strikes that disrupted filming schedules in Hollywood. No updated release date has been announced, according to Variety.Without elaborating, Reiner said that there would also be a few other surprise appearances in the film.For most of the podcast episode on Monday, Herring and Reiner mostly talked about Reiner’s new podcast, “Who Killed JFK?” But they also discussed the original “Spinal Tap” movie, his directorial debut, which Herring said was his favorite film of all time.Asked if he regretted anything about what was and wasn’t in the 1984 film, Reiner said no. And did he anticipate how influential it would prove to be? Also no.“When we first previewed it, we previewed it in a theater in Dallas, Texas, and people … they didn’t know what the heck they were looking at,” Reiner said.“They came up to me afterward and said, ‘I don’t understand. Why would you make a movie about a band that nobody’s ever heard of? And they’re so bad! Why would you do that?’” Reiner recalled. “They said, ‘You should make a movie about the Beatles or the Rolling Stones.’”“I said, ‘Well, it’s a satire,’” Reiner said on the podcast. “I tried to explain, you know. But over the years, people got it, and they started to like it.”Reiner’s comments on Herring’s podcast were reported earlier by the music magazine NME and other outlets. More

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    Nom Nom Nom. What’s the Deal With Cookie Monster’s Cookies?

    If you have ever wondered what the “Sesame Street” muppet is really eating, we have the answer.Years ago, a reader wrote probing for details on a mystery that had vexed him: What’s the deal with the cookies that Cookie Monster eats?The email said nothing else. I chuckled and filed the note in the cupboard of my brain where such things go. Until I realized something: Me want cookies. And me want answers.Cookie Monster, for those of you who skipped childhood, is a classic muppet on “Sesame Street.” He is a scraggly, blue fellow with bulging eyeballs, who has for decades been singularly obsessed with chaotically chowing down on cookies. The crumbs end up almost everywhere except his mouth, an effect that looks like a high-speed blender without a top.The character was created in the 1960s by Jim Henson, the creator of the Muppets, for a General Foods Canada commercial. Cookie eventually moved to “Sesame Street,” where he presumably found a good rent-stabilized apartment.It turns out the cookies are real — sort of.They are baked at the home of Lara MacLean, who has been a “puppet wrangler” for the Jim Henson Company for almost three decades. MacLean started as an intern for Sesame Workshop in 1992 and has been working for the team ever since.Lara MacLean, a puppet wrangler for the Jim Henson Company and the maker of the cookies that Cookie Monster eats, at the company’s offices in Queens.Carey Wagner for The New York TimesOne of the ingredients: instant coffee. Also: pancake mix, Puffed Rice and Grape-Nuts.Carey Wagner for The New York TimesMacClean dips her hand in water and flattens the cookies. They need to be thin enough to explode in a shower of crumbs.Carey Wagner for The New York TimesThe recipe, roughly: Pancake mix, puffed rice, Grape-Nuts and instant coffee, with water in the mixture. The chocolate chips are made using hot glue sticks — essentially colored gobs of glue.The cookies do not have oils, fats or sugars. Those would stain Cookie Monster. They’re edible, but barely.“Kind of like a dog treat,” MacLean said in an interview.Before MacLean reinvented the recipe in the 2000s, the creative team behind “Sesame Street” used versions of rice crackers and foams to make the cookies. The challenge was that the rice crackers would make more of a mess and get stuck in Cookie’s fur. And the foams didn’t look like cookies once they broke apart.For a given episode, depending on the script, MacLean will bake, on average, two dozen cookies. There’s no oven large enough at Sesame’s New York workplace, so MacLean does almost everything at home.This leads to the occasional awkward interaction, such as when MacLean once had to make huge batches of cookies for a series of Cookie Monster film spoofs.“My landlord came in my apartment at that time and I had all these cookies around and I was like, ‘I’m really sorry, I can’t offer you a cookie.’ And he probably just thought I was really mean,” she said.After baking.Carey Wagner for The New York TimesApplying hot brown glue for the cookie’s chocolate chips.Carey Wagner for The New York TimesOn set, when Cookie is shooting, MacLean said the “best-case scenario” was for the crumbs to end up all over the place.Sal Perez, the executive producer of “Sesame Street,” said, “You’ve got to be careful for the shrapnel that comes out when he’s munching on the cookie.”Cookie has been portrayed since 2001 by David Rudman, who took over the role from Frank Oz. Rudman’s right hand moves the mouth, which is eating, and his left hand holds the cookies. Both work in concert to break the cookies, which means the cookies have to be soft enough to fall apart.Jason Weber, the workshop’s creative supervisor, recalled Rudman complaining about a tough batch: “My hands are so sore. Don’t make them like this ever again.”Rudman said soft cookies are best, adding, “The more crumbs, the funnier it is.”“If he eats the cookie, and it only breaks into two pieces if it’s too hard, it’s just not funny,” he said. “It looks almost painful. But if he eats a cookie and it explodes into a hundred crumbs, that’s where the comedy comes from.”MacLean has perfected a recipe that is “thin enough that it’ll explode into a hundred crumbs.” Rudman said. “But it’s not too thin that it’ll break in my hand when I’m holding it.”The finished cookies. Not everyone realizes they are meant only for muppet consumption.Carey Wagner for The New York TimesSometimes shoots don’t go as planned. Cookie appeared on “Saturday Night Live” in 2010 when Jeff Bridges was hosting. During the opening monologue, Bridges sang a duet with Cookie. The cookie that Bridges was supposed to offer Cookie broke in Bridges’s pocket, so when he took it out, he only had half the cookie. So Bridges pulled out the other piece and improvised.“Not only a half, but a whole cookie!” Bridges said.Rudman responded as a delighted Cookie: “Twice as good!”Cookie doesn’t just eat the cookies. He eats the plate they are on and has recently expanded the menu to include fruits and vegetables. Occasionally he devours inanimate objects like mailboxes. There is a small gullet in his mouth, so Cookie can actually eat something the size of a small fist. Bananas, apples and small hats go down easy, but most of the cookie crumbs end up outside his mouth.Not everyone realizes that the cookies aren’t meant to be eaten. Adam Sandler appeared on a 2009 episode of “Sesame Street” and decided to share in Cookie’s delight by spontaneously eating a cookie with him on set.“As soon as the cameras cut, he was like, ‘Bleeeech,’” MacLean said.Rudman said he told Sandler not to eat the cookies: “I think he got caught up in the moment,”It’s hard not to. The 54th season of “Sesame Street” just premiered on Max. Cookie is almost 60, but the core of his character endures.“He has sort of this base instinct that I think all of us have, even the youngest of us have,” Perez said. “One of our first instincts is like: ‘We see a cookie. We see a thing that we love and we just want it.’” More

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    Everybody Knows Flo From Progressive. Who Is Stephanie Courtney?

    One needn’t eat Tostitos Hint of Lime Flavored Triangles to survive; advertising’s object is to muddle this truth. Of course, Hint of Lime Flavored Triangles have the advantage of being food, which humans do need to survive. Many commodities necessitated by modern life lack this selling point. Insurance, for example, is not only inedible but intangible. It is a resource that customers hope never to need, a product that functions somewhat like a tax on fear. The average person cannot identify which qualities, if any, distinguish one company’s insurance from another’s. For these reasons and more, selling insurance is tricksy business.Listen to This ArticleOpen this article in the New York Times Audio app on iOS.In 2022, nearly half the active property- and casualty-insurance premiums in the United States and Canada were sold by just 11 companies. Increasingly, insurance corporations attract business not by building trust between their customers and local agents, but by successfully ascribing positive characteristics to the fictional characters who anthropomorphize the companies and products in ads. The first to arrive at the vigorous insurance-brand-character orgy was a gecko, created in 1999 to teach people how to pronounce the acronymic name of the Government Employees Insurance Company. (Conceived as a single spot, Geico’s Gecko campaign was extended the year a commercial-actors’ strike prohibited live humans from filming ads.) It has since been joined by the Aflac duck, Liberty Mutual’s LiMu Emu, Professor Burke (J.K. Simmons) from Farmer’s (bumbadumbumbumbumbum), Jake from State Farm (from State Farm) and Mayhem from Allstate. But all of these are subordinate to a moderately whimsical employee-character, who has been persuading Americans to purchase insurance (or in some commercials, reminding them that they already have), since the twilight of the George W. Bush administration: Flo from Progressive.According to Ad Age, in 2022 the Progressive Corporation spent more than $2 billion on advertising in the United States, pouring more money into the effort than McDonald’s, Toyota or Coca-Cola. (The insurance industry’s total annual media-ad spending is estimated to be just shy of $11 billion — more than was spent by all the top beer brands combined.) Progressive’s C-suite could justify the elaborate outlay as follows: A decade and a half ago, their executive ancestors stumbled upon advertising gold, in the form of a story that Americans could bear to be told over and over again — so far, forever. It is an interminable folk tale about buying insurance, propelled by the charisma, or connoted soothing attentiveness, or gently grating peskiness, or something, of Flo, its central character.Flo debuted in 2008, working the checkout of an eldritch white store uncannily devoid of shadows or edges. The original idea behind these ads, internally called the “Superstore” campaign, was to transform insurance from something people had to pay for into something people got to shop for. (In early ads, the store’s shelves were lined with packages of insurance — cornflakes boxes and tomato cans covered with Progressive branding.) In “Behind the Apron: The Story of Flo,” a Progressive-produced video, a company executive recalls that before “Superstore,” when asked to list car-insurance companies they had heard of, even Progressive’s own customers failed to name it. The extent to which Flo is responsible for the company’s subsequent surge in popularity is impossible to quantify; the character is so inextricably linked with the brand that the two can no longer be separated for measurement. If it could be represented photographically, though, the relationship would look something like the inverse of the famous image from the psychologist Harry Harlow’s experiment, in which a baby rhesus monkey cleaves to a wooden “mother” — with the insensate entity fiercely clinging to the flesh-and-blood woman. Courtney’s debut in 2008.Courtney in 2023.A pair of Flo’s blue high-tops are displayed at Progressive headquarters in Ohio. In the company’s online store, her likeness, in varying degrees of abstraction, adorns a lunch box, an air freshener, a puzzle, a pin, a dog toy, a bobblehead, a chia pet and the faces of multiple dolls of other nations (a Japanese kokeshi and a family of Russian matryoshkas). The only Flo paraphernalia that does not feature her visage subsumes the buyer into her likeness: the “Flo Costume,” with apron, name tag, pin, headband and chestnut-brown wig ($24.99; worn two Halloweens ago by Joe Jonas). The year the ads premiered, the company’s chief marketing officer, Remi Kent, told me, Progressive’s stock price was under $15. It recently closed at $157.67. “While I can’t give Flo all of the credit,” Kent said, “I think she has really become synonymous with the brand.”In fact, the human face, voice and bearing that constitute “Flo” are associated far more strongly with Progressive than with the 53-year-old woman who provides them: Stephanie Courtney. Courtney did not intend to sell insurance. She meant to star on Broadway and then, following wish revision, to support herself as a comedic actress. Instead, she has starred in the same role for 15 years and counting, becoming in the process a character recognizable to nearly every American — a feat so rare her peers in this category are mostly cartoon animals. Since appearing in the first Flo spot in January 2008, Courtney has never been absent from American TV, rematerializing incessantly in the same sugar-white apron and hoar-frost-white polo shirt and cocaine-white trousers that constitute the character’s unvarying wardrobe. It’s true that her career did not launch until she was 38; and most of her audience could not tell you her name or anything about her; and many of the attendees of the Groundlings improv show in Los Angeles, in which she still performs weekly, probably do not recognize her — set all that aside, though, and Stephanie Courtney is one of the most successful actors in the world. I found Courtney in head-to-toe black at the restaurant in Studio City where we had arranged to meet — a photo negative of Flo on a suede sofa. Her purse immediately caught my eye: It appeared to be an emerald green handbag version of the $388 “bubble clutch” made by Cult Gaia, the trendy label whose fanciful purses double as objets d’art. Courtney handed it to me while rattling off tips for extending the shelf life of fresh eggs. It was a plastic carrying case for eggs, it turned out — eggs she had brought me from her six backyard hens. “Did you think it was a purse?” she asked merrily.We were led to a small outdoor table abutting an immense dormant fire pit. “When they turn this on,” Courtney said in a conspiratorial whisper, setting her (actual) handbag upon its concrete ledge, “it’s going to be amazing to see this bag catch on fire.” (Indeed, it would prove exciting when, two and a half hours later, flames leaped out of the pit with no warning; Courtney rescued her pocketbook just before it was engulfed.) Over iced tap water, Courtney told me about the early days of her acting career, a carousel of enthusiastic rejection — “Everyone in New York is like: ‘You’re great! No.’” — subsidized by catering work. In 1998, she moved to Los Angeles and booked her first commercial: a 1999 Bud Light Super Bowl ad. “I was the girl in the back going like this,” Courtney said, making a face that a girl in the back might make as two guys in the checkout line, short on cash, debated whether to purchase toilet paper or Bud Light. To her eye, the Bud Light toilet-paper spot was suffused with a timeless quality — one that guaranteed it would “play forever,” she told herself, using the money it earned her to buy UGGs. It turned out to play closer to a month. This was significant because of how big broadcast commercials tend to pay: Actors receive one sum for their day of work on set and residuals in 13-week cycles as long as it plays thereafter.Commercial work was intended to tide Courtney over until her comedy career took off. At open mics, she performed alongside ascendant comedians like Tig Notaro, Maria Bamford and Retta. After years of classes, she was promoted to the upper echelons of the Groundlings improv troupe, a comedy mint that has pressed stars like Lisa Kudrow, Paul Reubens and Melissa McCarthy into wide circulation but is best known for stacking the cast of “Saturday Night Live” with performers who are not Stephanie Courtney. “S.N.L.” would come to watch Groundlings performances and, as Courtney recalled to me, “They were like, ‘Stop sending her stuff in.’ Like, ‘We’re not interested.’”“I remember feeling so terrible,” Courtney said. “And just embarrassed. Like a weird shame. Like, ‘I shouldn’t even walk around.’” It wasn’t as if “S.N.L.” had declared a moratorium on Groundlings hires. The show signed her friend Kristen from class — better known from 2005 to 2012 as “ ‘Saturday Night Live’ star Kristen Wiig.” Wiig described Courtney to me as “one of the funniest people I’ve ever known in my life” — supernaturally gifted at instantaneously inventing new characters; “a master improviser”; “effortless.” She remembered a sketch in which Courtney played an excited stand-up waiting in the wings, listening to a prolonged, fawning introduction before walking onstage to begin her set. “And as soon as she gets out, she falls really hard on her face,” Wiig said, laughing. “Just starts moaning and crying. And that was the sketch.” Stephanie Courtney performing with the Groundlings improv troupe in September.Sinna Nasseri for The New York TimesThe problem in the early 2000s was that people didn’t love Courtney in a way that could be reliably monetized. She auditioned for the role of Joan on “Mad Men,” and the show’s creator, Matthew Weiner, loved her, but not for Joan — for a character named Marge, a switchboard operator, with whom other characters had almost no interaction.“I was so stinkin’ broke,” Courtney said. Her car wouldn’t go in reverse, but the repair cost something like $2,500, so she just drove it forward. This complicated traveling between auditions, but she had a method. She would pull into a spot, roll down her windows and go inside. When she returned, she would give another performance: that of a woman discovering that her car would not start. “ ‘Oh, no!’” she would exclaim. “ ‘Oh, shoot! Oh, no! My car won’t start!’ And then I’d flag down someone and be like: ‘Oh, I have an idea! What if I put it in neutral, and you pushed it?’” People love being generous — someone always helped that poor woman. “And I’d go to the next one and do the whole thing all over again.” This act Courtney described as “much better than whatever I did” at the actual auditions, which didn’t lead to much. By 2007, Courtney’s life was all on credit cards, and her age was a number almost unheard-of in scenic Southern California. Even the commercial gigs were slowing when, that winter, she was cast in an ad for an insurance company, as a cashier. She arrived at 5:30 the morning of the shoot to have bangs cut into her hair (“I didn’t recognize myself”) and texted a photo of the finished look from her flip phone to the guy she was dating (now her husband, a lighting designer at the Groundlings theater). The first script ended with a customer, upon realizing the quality of deal he was receiving, saying, “Wow,” to which the cashier (name tag: “Flo”) was instructed only to have a funny reaction. Courtney’s knee-jerk response was to scream, “Wow!” back. “I say it louder,” she added under her breath. Years of Groundlings tuition paid off in this instant. Progressive loved the ad-lib. Within a couple of months of shooting the first ads, Courtney was asked to film more. The work eventually became so steady that she quit her day jobs. “I just remember getting the check for the year — which, never, ever in my life … ” she trailed off. The relief in her voice sounded as fresh as if this had only just happened. “I owed my manager money,” she said. “I owed family members money.” Her efforts to write sketches at home were constantly being interrupted by debt collectors. “And then I got that money, and I was just like: Here! Here! Here!” She mimed handing it out. “Just — here! — just get out of my life.” About three years into the ads, Courtney’s finances were evolving so rapidly that her manager advised her to get a business manager. “Which I did,” she said. “And it is the advice I give to any other person who is like: ‘I have a campaign. What do I do?’” It is the advice she gave to Kevin Miles when he came to her home to chat over lunch about becoming Jake from State Farm. (She also knows “Doug,” the guy in the Liberty Mutual emu commercials.)In the absent glow of the patio’s still-dormant fire pit, Courtney and I considered the dinner menu, which included a small quantity of caviar costing a sum of American dollars ominously, discreetly, vaguely, alarmingly, irresistibly and euphemistically specified as “market price.” Hours earlier, my supervisor had told me pre-emptively — and demonically — that I was not to order and expense the market-price caviar. Somehow, Courtney learned of this act of oppression, probably when I brought it up to her immediately upon being seated for dinner. To this, Courtney said, “I love caviar,” and added that my boss “can’t tell [her] what [she] can have,” because she doesn’t “answer to” him, “goddamn it.” She charged the caviar to her own personal credit card and encouraged me to eat it with her — even as I explained (weakly, for one second) that this is not allowed (lock me up!). Subsequently pinning down the exact hows and whys of my consuming a profile subject’s forbidden caviar took either several lively discussions with my supervisor (my guess) or about “1.5 hours” of “company time” (his calculation). In his opinion, this act could be seen as at odds with my employer’s policy precluding reporters from accepting favors and gifts from their subjects — the worry being that I might feel obligated to repay Courtney for caviar by describing her favorably in this article. Let me be clear: If the kind of person who purchases caviar and offers to share it with a dining companion who has been tyrannically deprived of it sounds like someone you would not like, you would hate Stephanie Courtney. In any event, to bring this interaction into line with company policy, we later reimbursed her for the full price of the caviar ($85 plus tip), so now she is, technically, indebted to me. Despite her face being central to the ad campaign, Courtney told me at dinner (where we otherwise dined with marvelous economy) that she is seldom recognized — “maybe once a month,” she estimated. She makes few in-person character appearances. “You might like Flo,” she said, “but do you want to deal with her now, against your will?” About a year into the campaign, she visited a friend who had informed her son that Flo would be stopping by. Courtney arrived as herself — no costume — but just the idea that the TV lady was suddenly in his home sent the child “sobbing” into his room. “It’s almost like Santa Claus getting in your face,” Courtney said. “And it’s like: ‘Ain’t no gifts! There’s no upside!’” She learned early that people enjoy spotting Flo in real life only if they realize who she is on their own. If, for instance, her mother-in-law excitedly informs a stranger that she is Flo, they do not like it. “They really don’t,” she said.According to Progressive, 99 percent of consumers — defined by Remi Kent as “everyone out there that has the potential to buy insurance from us” — “know Flo.” Kent told me that the character scores high on likability “not only with the general market” but also with “the Black community” and “the Hispanic community.” For years, Sean McBride, the chief creative officer of the Arnold Worldwide advertising agency (whose copywriters have written more than 200 TV spots for the “Superstore” campaign), received daily emails indicating that ads featuring Flo were “very, very directly tied to people calling” Progressive to inquire about switching insurance.Jumbling the puzzle of Flo’s likability, according to Cait Lamberton, a professor of marketing at the Wharton School, is the possibility that what audiences enjoyed about Flo in 2008 is not what they enjoy — or think they enjoy — about her in 2023. It could be that American brains, exposed to so many years of this ad campaign, now confuse the “ease of processing” Flo content (a quality reinforced through repeated exposure) with actually liking it. Research shows, Lamberton said, that familiarity can overpower distaste.“Even if people find her annoying, they don’t find her objectionable,” Lamberton said. In fact, even people who don’t like Flo do like Flo, because any character trait they cite as a reason for disliking her “reflects that there’s a very strong memory trace.” For advertisers, a character that stimulates mild irritation with every appearance is preferable to one that is innocuous, so long as the benign annoyance does not mutate into a strong negative association. Complaining about something trivial, Lamberton said, “is a very comforting experience.”Courtney struggled as an actress for years before landing a lucrative role that has lasted for a decade and a half.Sinna Nasseri for The New York TimesOne possible secret to Flo’s appeal, suggested Lamberton, is that her appearance “both conforms to and pokes fun at gender stereotypes, because she’s a little bit exaggerated. She looks a little bit like a quirky Snow White.” The lightly retro hairdo may be “comforting” to people for whom feminine bouffants recall a halcyon social era; it can also be read as a wry visual gag juxtaposed against Flo’s sexless, shapeless uniform. What makes the “Superstore” campaign not just notable but virtuosic is its freakish longevity. To stave off what Lamberton called the “wear out” phase — when content becomes so familiar it is no longer effective — Arnold is perpetually altering the ads just enough to keep them novel. It has released “Superstore” spots shot in the style of a fuzzy 1970s after-school special, a 1990s sitcom and a “TMZ on TV”-style paparazzi show. It has introduced co-workers (“the squad”) not to supplant Flo but to further develop her character. (She can interact with her colleagues more brusquely than with customers.) Courtney has portrayed several members of Flo’s extended family, including her grandfather. If we can think of the campaign as a sentient being seeking to prolong its survival, its mission is to generate ceaseless low-grade curiosity about the familiar character of Flo. (“Is this a new ad?” constitutes sufficient interest.)McBride compared Flo’s effect on insurance advertising to the influence of “Iron Man” on cinema. Robert Downey Jr. is “so incredibly charming, fast-talking, but sort of self-effacing — whatever that is — and then every Marvel movie became that,” he said. “This is kind of the junior version of that.” Lamberton placed the campaign in the vanguard of now-ubiquitous trends like brand characters instantiating abstract concepts, and commercials that function as ersatz sitcoms with years of story lines. Flo’s surreal cheer, and the extent to which her enthusiasm for competitively priced insurance veers into pathological obsession, are winks at an old-fashioned idea of advertising; the implication, through exaggeration, is that today’s audiences are too sophisticated to be swayed by an unrealistic pitchman. Lamberton refers to this self-conscious style, endemic in the current proliferation of “funny” insurance commercials, as “ironic advertising” — ads that “recognize they are a little bit ridiculous.” When I told Remi Kent about online speculation that Progressive pays Courtney $1 million per year to star in commercials, Kent smiled silently at me for a few seconds without moving the muscles of her face one millimeter, like a buffering video of herself. It was only when I declared my own guess for Courtney’s annual salary — a figure much higher than $1 million — that she stopped buffering (but kept smiling). “Well,” Kent said, “that’s a wide range, isn’t it?”The second guess I put to Kent was a number hazarded by Phil Cassese, a commercial agent at Stewart Talent. Cassese’s clients have appeared in ads for brands like Olive Garden and Verizon. (One, a young redhead, served as the new face of Wendy’s after its 2012 rebrand.) By his estimation, the star of a “splashy campaign,” along the lines of “Superstore,” might reasonably expect to hit the $1 million mark after four or five years — around the time of the Cronut and “Blurred Lines,” in Courtney’s case. Fifteen years in, Cassese said, an annual figure “like $10 million” would be “in the fair ballpark.” You know how sometimes, in a commercial, there is a scene that takes place in a house? How many houses do you suppose the commercial auteurs need to borrow to pull that off? “Zero — that’s what movie magic is for”? Perhaps, “One”? In fact, on a gray morning this past spring, the people who make the Progressive commercials commandeered a whole block of houses, to shoot scenes inside one family’s appealingly nondescript home. “There are specific neighborhoods in L.A. that don’t look like L.A.,” Sean McBride told me. “If you start paying attention,” he said, you will notice the same homes reused “constantly.”To the tree-lined block, the “Superstore” team had trucked a quantity of equipment sufficient to stage a three-hour Beyoncé concert on the moon. There were lights, cameras, actors’ gleaming trailers and portable heaters — it was, after all, 62 degrees outside — but most of the equipment just looked like … equipment? Like: sturdy black tubs with lids, crates, clamps, poles, spaghetti heaps of power cords, racks of racks, extra-large folded-up things, rectangles and tubular items. Some of this arsenal had been used to transform the living room of one house into a Black person’s living room. Perhaps it already was one — but because regular people don’t naturally style their dwellings in commercially approved ways (literally, a representative from Progressive HQ must walk through the set and approve every single item that will appear on camera), because they have things like artwork (stupid), their own furniture (ugly), family photos (who is that?!) and Rubik’s cubes (forbidden, because Rubik’s Cubes® are trademarked), all the aforementioned must be temporarily disappeared and replaced with narratively appropriate, legally generic this and that. If cars are present, their manufacturer logos are covered with abstract shapes of similar dimensions, their license plates, upon inspection, cursively reading not “California” but “Drive Safely.” This obfuscation process is called “Greeking,” as in, “It’s all Greek to me” (as in, “I can’t tell what that says, but it definitely doesn’t say Kia Optima, for legal reasons”). If my visit to the “Superstore” set can be taken as representative, being closely involved with the production of popular TV commercials for large national brands is the best possible outcome for a human life. The scale and complexity of the operation at the center of Courtney’s work is eye-popping. Every fleeting football-game-interrupting Progressive ad is the product of hours of labor from more than a hundred people. On set, a cat wrangler stood just out of frame, ready to pounce with a backup cat if the primary cat failed. Trays of lickerish delights — crostini with prosciutto, cups of ethereal parfait — were discreetly proffered, at frequent intervals, to people scrutinizing monitors. Every lens, light and politely anxious face was turned heliotropically toward Courtney, in a rented living room, trying to remember, while delivering her line, that Progressive was offering deals “for new parents” rather than “to new parents” — a possibly meaningful distinction. This wasn’t a critically acclaimed Hulu series; there was actually a lot riding on this. It needed to be the same, but slightly different, and every bit as successful as the 200 that had come before it, so that everyone would be asked to return to this job — not necessarily, perhaps not exactly, the job of their dreams, but a better job than anyone could ever hope for, bolstered by friendly faces and fantastic catering and a sumptuous corporate budget — in perpetuity. Many entertainers progress from commercial work (young Leonardo DiCaprio for Bubble Yum) to critical acclaim; some later double back to endorsement work to cash in on their renown (less-young Leonardo DiCaprio for the Guangdong OPPO Mobile Telecommunications Corporation). Few, in either stage, find their likenesses permanently welded to a multibillion-dollar company. Courtney continued auditioning for other ads even after landing Progressive, but suspected that even casting directors who liked Stephanie Courtney refused to hire Flo. She could have avoided what has become an indelible association by abandoning the role early on. But she almost certainly could not have been as successful as an actor had she not played Flo for 15 years; few actors are.Backstage at The Groundlings.Sinna Nasseri for The New York TimesYet Courtney cannot but envy some of her peers, flourishing from projects they have written themselves. “I’m as competitive or hard on myself or ‘compare and despair’ as anybody,” she said. She feels pressure — self-inflicted — to pursue a creative endeavor that is solely hers. “I am writing something just for mys — I shouldn’t even say this, but I’m writing something for myself,” she said. It’s a comedic script, set in a high school, like the one where her father worked. “I don’t even think I should waste my time trying to pitch it to anybody,” Courtney told me. “Because I understand that it would be received politely. It would be a great meeting. We’d have water.” But, no matter how funny she is in real life, she knows people are not clamoring to hear more from the Progressive lady about her ideas for feature-length comedy films. If she ever did make a go of it, “I would probably finance it,” she said. “I will probably take my kid’s college money.” There are moments when Courtney’s everyday is disrupted by a flashing recollection of her good fortune. A while ago, she and her husband were discussing possible home improvements — some tedious projects they should get around to. “I remember thinking,” she said, “in an annoyed tone, Well, how can life be better than it is now?!” The idea made them laugh. “It’s worth more than money,” Courtney said, to feel like you have “enough.” But other things might be worth more than money, too — things like knowing you have told a story that inspired your fellow man to contemplate facets of life beyond switching insurance carriers. Is there a tasteful limit to how many things worth more than money a person should attempt to acquire? “Who has a better job than you?” I asked. “On that set?” Courtney asked. “In the world.”“There are times when I ask myself that,” Courtney said. “The miserable me who didn’t get to audition for ‘S.N.L.’ never would have known,” she said, how good life could be when she was denied what she wanted. “I hope that’s coming through,” she said. “I’m screaming it in your face.”What sane person would not make the most extreme version of this trade — tabling any and all creative aspirations, possibly forever, in exchange for free prosciutto; testing well with the general market, the Black and the Hispanic communities; delighted co-workers and employers; more than four million likes on Facebook; and, though tempered with the constant threat of being rendered obsolete by unseen corporate machinations, the peace of having “enough”? Do we deny ourselves the pleasure of happiness by conceiving of it as something necessarily total, connoting maximum satisfaction in every arena? For anyone with any agency over his or her life, existence takes the form of perpetual bartering. Perhaps we waive the freedom of endless, aimless travel for the safety of returning to a home. Perhaps willingly capping our creative potential secures access to a reliable paycheck. Forfeiting one thing for the promise of something else later is a sophisticated human idea. Our understanding of this concept enables us to sell one another insurance.Caity Weaver is a staff writer at the magazine. She has written about trying to find Tom Cruise, going on a package trip for youngish people and spending time in the “quietest place on Earth.” Sinna Nasseri is a first-generation American based in Los Angeles. He learned to take photographs on the streets of New York City after leaving a career as a lawyer. More

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    Sebastian Maniscalco’s Toughest Audience Is His Kids

    “When they laugh, it blows away the feeling of 20,000 people,” says the comedian, who stars in the new Max series “Bookie.”Sebastian Maniscalco sells out theaters riffing on his tight-knit Italian American family. Earlier this year, in the movie “About My Father,” Robert De Niro played his hairstylist dad — who tutored the actor in the art of applying highlights. He even pitched a series centered on his life to the sitcom creator Chuck Lorre.But Lorre had another idea. Would Maniscalco be game to portray a Los Angeles bookie adjusting his business plan as the legalization of sports gambling looms?“I said, ‘Yeah, that sounds like an interesting world to live in,’” he recalled. The clincher: “I liked not playing me.”“Bookie,” out Thursday on Max, caters to the antics that Maniscalco, with his elastic body and malleable face, excels in.“I love not only telling a story, but kind of acting it out,” he said in a video interview from Atlantic City, N.J., where he was wrapping up a residency.Onstage, Maniscalco is every bit the exasperated son, husband and father who finds even a trip to the grocery store a painful undertaking. But in real life, he revels in Sundays at the farmers’ market with his young daughter and son, admiring the art of his wife, Lana Gomez, and Whirley Pop movie nights with the whole family.These are edited excerpts from the conversation.1My TheragunI love massage, and I try to get one once a week. But when I’m on the road it’s hit or miss. And I like a really, really deep-tissue massage. So that’s what the Theragun provides for me.2Farmers’ MarketsIt’s not necessarily shopping for fresh ingredients, but for me now with kids, to watch them walk around the farmers’ market and get excited about seeing that they’re making caramel corn, or you could feed the goat or the rabbits, or that there’s a whole pistachio stand. It’s a family tradition that we do on Sundays when I’m in town.3My Wife’s ArtMy wife is unbelievably positive and cheerful, and her art reflects her personality. It’s abstract, it’s colorful, it’s happy. I wasn’t a big art guy prior to meeting my wife, but I have a different appreciation now about what goes into creating a piece of art. We have this huge piece in the living room that she just put up, and it’s different shades of green. It reminds me of her every time I see it.4Megaformer PilatesI thought Pilates was on the floor. And then next thing you know, I’m strapped into a machine, and I’m doing these movements that I haven’t ever done before, and my body is becoming elongated. If you do it on a consistent basis, you really start to see the muscles that are being used.5Whirley Pop Movie NightsWe love making popcorn, and my wife turned me on to this machine, which has that crank on the side that stirs the kernels. Just canola oil and salt — that’s all you need. And we sit and watch movies. Now that the kids are getting older, they’re starting to get into movies that I grew up with, like “The Wizard of Oz” and “Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory.” My daughter is into doing all the songs from “Grease.”6EatalyThey have lobsters in an aquarium where the kids can look, and they have big whole fish with the eyeballs. They have a little pasta station, and I ask them, “OK, pick out the pasta that you want Daddy to make you tonight.” I feel like they have more of an appreciation of the food because they’re invested in it. I also want to open up their palates to different sauces on the pasta other than butter and cheese.7Cooking to Relax, Sort OfSome guys go golfing. I like cooking for people. It’s a little nerve-racking because something could go wrong and you’ve got 13 people over. The problem with me is I like to do too much. I like people to be full before they even start eating the entree.8Surprise Date NightsSometimes you become ships passing in the night, and you need that time together as a couple. So she picks a night and surprises me where we’re going to go. And then the next week I’ll pick a night and surprise her. I think it’s very important to have those date nights in a marriage that let you reconnect.9‘Succession’It is more of a comedy for me because I find myself laughing at a lot of the things they say, particularly Brian Cox, who was hysterical in this thing, and Kieran Culkin, the zingers that they throw out. I think I’ve got about four episodes left.10My Toughest AudienceThere was nothing better for me than making a room full of strangers laugh — until I had kids. When they laugh, it blows away the feeling of 20,000 people. If I get my daughter rolling on a laugh, for me it’s gold. They’re my toughest audience, but the most rewarding. More

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    Danielle Brooks and Sam Jay on Confidence and ‘The Color Purple’

    Two creative people in two different fields in one wide-ranging conversation. This time: the actress and the comedian.Viewers first saw the actress Danielle Brooks as Taystee, the smartest and funniest of the prisoners on “Orange Is the New Black,” the incarceration dramedy that began in 2013 and ran for seven seasons on Netflix. This month, she’ll appear in “The Color Purple,” the second film adaptation of Alice Walker’s 1982 novel, this one based on the 2005 Broadway musical it inspired. Brooks’s character, Sofia, forced to work a grueling job as a maid for a white political family in early 1900s Georgia, was portrayed by Oprah Winfrey in Steven Spielberg’s 1985 adaptation; Brooks, 34, a Juilliard School-trained actress who was raised in South Carolina, played her in the musical’s 2015 revival. That production was Brooks’s Broadway debut; last year, she starred alongside Samuel L. Jackson in a revival of August Wilson’s “The Piano Lesson” (1990).The comedian Sam Jay, who grew up in Boston and whose humor Brooks has long admired, recently released her first HBO special, “Salute Me or Shoot Me.” Jay, 41, spent years doing stand-up in Los Angeles before joining the writers’ room of “Saturday Night Live” in 2017. She left the show after three seasons for two series, “Pause With Sam Jay” (2021) and “Bust Down” (2022), both of which she helped create and starred in, and which highlight her frank, anecdotal style. This past October, the two gathered in a photo studio in downtown Manhattan to discuss acting, impostor syndrome and learning the importance of asking for what they need.T: Many stage shows that perform well are rumored to get adaptations that never materialize — but this one did, and quickly. Is that just the power of the film’s producer Oprah Winfrey?Danielle Brooks: I think for Oprah it’s making sure the story continues to have a life — that it lives through generations.Sam Jay: You shot in Georgia, right? I always wonder about Black people shooting these period films where they have to go back to being downtrodden, sweaty Black. How do you snap out of that and then just, like, go chill at Checkers?D.B.: It was tough but at times cool because you’re in it. It’s the difference between doing it on a stage versus on an actual plantation. It did get real at times: All I could think about was how many of my people were hung from those trees. I had the responsibility of making sure I told this very beloved story as honestly as I could to represent those people who aren’t here.Brooks and Corey Hawkins in the forthcoming film adaptation of “The Color Purple.”Eli Ade/Waner Bros.S.J.: Are they going to let the main characters Shug and Celie be gayer? Because they’re gay as hell in the book, and they really skipped over that in the first movie. When I read the book … it wasn’t just some crush; they were together.D.B.: You’re going to be satisfied. You get that, which I was happy about.S.J.: I feel like that was a part of the story Walker was trying to tell.D.B.: I got to meet her on set, and my close friend Corey Hawkins, who plays Harpo [Sofia’s husband], took a video of it, which was great because for me it starts with her. My whole pop-off — my Broadway career — started through her book.S.J.: These Broadway runs. …D.B.: It’s crazy. I imagine there was a lot of preparation before doing your HBO special, though, too. Do you remember how many shows you did before that?S.J.: I did somewhere around 300 shows for a year and a half. I was maybe three or four months into touring when I bumped into Chris Rock. We had dinner and he was like, “I don’t do less than 250 shows before filming.” So I immediately called my agent and got more on the books. Then I’m feeling myself because I’m, like, 20 shows away from my 250 and Chris goes, “Yeah, 50 more shows. I’m not telling you to do anything I wouldn’t do!” But I watch that special now and think, “Ah, growth.”D.B.: That’s how I feel with “The Color Purple.” When I did the Broadway show, I had so much anxiety and was going to therapy because I felt like an impostor. Cut to five years later, doing the movie, I felt such comfort. I might have done 500 shows, now that I think about it. One year, eight shows a week — someone do the math — but I felt more confident, worthy enough to portray this character.S.J.: Confidence, I’ve come to feel, is just knowledge. The more information you have, the more confident you are. When I look at my special, I can tell I was free.D.B.: I always thought you were free, every time I’ve watched you. I’m pretty picky about comedians; I don’t laugh at a lot of stuff. I’m the person in the audience the comedians make fun of, like, “Look at this bitch not laughing,” and then I’m still not laughing.S.J.: I think only you know what you’re hiding. In real life, I’m very silly and physical when I’m talking but, for some reason, when I’m onstage, I’m like, “You ain’t no clown! You don’t need to be doing all that flailing around.” It’s dumb because it’s comedy, but it was really me just being afraid to let that side out.D.B.: Did you ever feel, when you were starting out, that there was a comedian you wanted to style yourself to be like?Jay’s 2023 HBO special, “Salute Me or Shoot Me.” Courtesy of HBOS.J.: I don’t think I wanted to be like anyone, but you get ideas from others. Chris Rock was the first comic I saw who made sense to me. I grew up in a “Def Comedy Jam” era, with Black and white comedy being very separate. I love that era, but that’s not how my brain works. I’m not good at roasting. I’d seen George Carlin, too, and that seemed very white. But Chris was this hybrid I thought was cool.D.B.: I feel like some people won’t give you the real — where you think, “I can’t believe they just said that” — but also make you examine why you think the way you do. That’s so important in any medium, and the point of what we do, so we can see ourselves. Comedy’s always been that easier pill to swallow, for the truth. So when somebody can do that, not just make you laugh but question why you think about, you know, disabled people in some way, or why you don’t like to use the N-word, I find it important. What I’ve always enjoyed is that you don’t hold back. In a way, I can be guarded, but you’re very, “No, let’s talk about it.”S.J.: It comes from a kind of twisted place of my mom passing away [in 1998, from lupus] and me accepting the idea of mortality, that you don’t live forever. I moved out when I was 16 — I’ve had no parent longer than I’ve had a parent. I sometimes don’t remember my mother’s face, but I remember how she made me feel. That’s all that remains. I remember the lessons she taught. So it’s just about trying to be intentional in every interaction.D.B.: I think that’s the same for me … being more guarded because my mother is a minister. She’s very much, “Be careful what you do; what you say is going to affect you till you die.” I love my mom, I respect her 100 percent, but I have to live for me because it’s my life. But I want to hear about your experience booking “S.N.L.” I want to be on that show so bad!S.J.: I get this call from my manager, “Will you audition for ‘S.N.L.’ tomorrow?” I’m like, “Do they really want me? I’m not doing a character.” I didn’t want to set myself up for failure. I audition, then get a call saying, “We know you auditioned for the cast but how would you like to come be a writer?” I hang up and I’m like, “Damn, OK, too ugly for TV.” But I needed to step into something new at that point in my career. I’m all about going toward things that you’re afraid of, so I said yeah.Brooks (center) as Sofia in the 2015 Broadway revival of “The Color Purple.”Sara Krulwich/The New York TimesD.B.: Do you ask for what you need when you’re doing a show, or do you settle a bit?S.J.: I’m going to ask for what I need.D.B.: I think about a lot of women in comedy who aren’t matching up to what men are making or getting, in terms of perks. It’s just not happening. I was watching Luenell’s comedy show, and she was talking about being on a plane with comedians, and the men are flying first class and she’s in coach.S.J.: At first, I was absolutely scared to ask. I didn’t know what was OK.D.B.: You do have a core group of people that you can go to where you can say, “Let’s be real: How much do you make on this?”S.J.: I wish it was stronger, but I do feel like I got a couple of people where we try to be pretty transparent about that stuff. That’s the age-old trick where you have a 9-to-5 and they’re like, “You guys aren’t allowed to talk about this.” And it’s like, “Yeah, so you can keep us all poor.”D.B.: That’s been one of the best parts of having a friend group in the industry, our transparency. We’re not gonna brag about our contracts, but if you want to know, we’ll lay it out so we can come up together. You don’t know what you don’t know. That’s what drives me crazy: when you find out someone had a personal chef or a trainer, and you’re like, “Nobody told me that was a possibility, and I needed it more than they did.”S.J.: I think working behind the scenes, working on “S.N.L.,” knowing the lengths they’ll go to make sure the talent is OK, now when I’m being the talent, I’m like, “Do that for me.” It sometimes feels bitchy, but that’s just a stigma in our heads as women.D.B.: There are a lot of ways we should be given more respect. I think about hair and makeup: Why is it so much to ask for someone who can actually do my hair, rather than teaching somebody to do it? And why is it so wrong to ask for somebody who can do my face rather than having to come to them with the products I use?S.J.: The ask, at its core, is coming from a place of having to build up the confidence to do this work. That’s the thing that gets misconstrued when Black people say they want Black people in these spaces. The reverse racism crowd sees that as wanting everything to be all Black, when, no, it’s because we know we need this stuff.D.B.: I don’t want to go to a costume fitting and have to give them a list of shops and places to get my clothes. On “The Color Purple,” our hair and makeup departments were phenomenal — the wigs matched; the lace was lacing.S.J.: You know “The Color Purple” is coming correct.T: How do you work comedy into your performance of Sofia, who’s one of the most visibly oppressed, but also most joyous, characters in the film?D.B.: Sometimes, when people go through so much, they don’t want to dwell on that; they’re longing for joy and laughter. She’s somebody who tries to stop generational curses, whether that be through an abusive marriage or abusive parents. She’s trying to bring her community to the right path. She might not have all the skills to do so — she might use her fists or her mouth — but, at her core, she’s not looking for a fight. She’s looking to have a great day.This interview has been edited and condensed.Danielle Brooks: Fashion: ObyDezign. Hair: Tish Celestine at La Belle Boutique, NYC. Makeup: Renee Sanganoo using Nars at the Only AgencySam Jay: Hair and makeup: Merrell Hollis More

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    Kevin Hart to Receive Mark Twain Prize for American Humor

    The comedian and movie star will get the honor, the most prestigious in comedy, at a March ceremony.In his rise to the very top of the comedy world, Kevin Hart has done everything from delivering hit specials to selling out a football stadium to starring in box office smashes like “Jumanji.”On Wednesday, the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts recognized that versatility and announced that it would award its 25th annual Mark Twain Prize for American Humor to Hart at a ceremony on March 24. The center cited his “iconic characters, inimitable physical comedy, and relatable narratives,” as well as his achievements as a comedian, actor, writer and producer.In a statement, Hart, 44, noted that he had been performing stand-up since at least the inception of the award. “To be honored in this commemorative year feels surreal,” he added. “Comedy is my outlet for social commentary and observations on life — I am grateful to the Kennedy Center for recognizing my voice and impact on culture. I can’t wait to celebrate!”He got his start in Philadelphia at a comedy club amateur night and built up a career that included major tours like “Laugh at My Pain” (2011), one of several shows that were turned into concert films. That includes his 2015 performance before 53,000 fans at the Philadelphia Eagles stadium. In addition to appearing in TV series like “Real Husbands of Hollywood” and “Modern Family,” he found big-screen success as a foil for Dwayne Johnson (the “Jumanji” movies, “Central Intelligence”), Ice Cube (the “Ride Along” franchise) and Mark Wahlberg (“Me Time).There have been controversies along the way. Hart was to host the Oscars in 2019, but a backlash over old tweets and jokes that were considered homophobic led him to withdraw, saying, “I sincerely apologize to the L.G.B.T.Q. community for my insensitive words from my past.” More