Lisa Miller

Writer Judi Amato talks to us about For a Brief Moment and Never Again Since

When we came across Judi Amato‘s honesty in talking openly about the financial challenges faced in bringing a show to the VAULT Festival it certainly caught out attention, raising that always tricking subject of money and the arts. It seemed a good enough reason to grab some time with Judi to chat about her upcoming show For A Brief Moment and Never Again Since, to find out not just about the financial difficultes but more importantly, the show itself.

Hi Judi, Could you introduce yourself and tell us a little about the show?

My name is Judi Amato and I’m the writer and producer of For a Brief Moment and Never Again Since. The play revolves around a young couple and how their lives are affected when one of them goes to jail for a highly publicised crime. The play aims to offer an insight into the complexities of relationships within the prison system, and how the family members of convicts are often assumed to share their guilt, to have known about their crimes or to condone it somehow.

Was there a particular case or incident that inspired the show then?

I came across a podcast by a woman whose husband was in prison. Throughout the podcast she mentioned again and again the stigma and backlash she’d been facing since her husband’s arrest: the constant accusations of having been complicit, of having enjoyed the results of his crimes, the way even some family members had become suspicious of her. This prompted a wider research into crimes and the way the family members of convicts (and in particularly women) are often dragged through the mud and looked at with suspicion based on the assumption that “they must’ve known”. I can remember cases in which I myself have thought “well there is no way you wouldn’t notice if your spouse did this”. Why would I think that? Why would anyone? That’s the assumption I wanted to question in myself and others. So the play wasn’t inspired by a particular case, but rather by the fallacy of guilt by association itself.

The show is directed by Lisa Miller who is on her third season directing at Vault Festival. That sounds like some great experience to have onboard?

Photo Credit @ Henry Roberts

Lisa is an incredible human. Having her on board as director and dramaturg has been the best part of this generally incredible experience. She is passionate, brilliant, and she loves the play. Her background and lived experiences share similarities with the characters’, so she brings a real honesty to it. You can tell she wants it to be the best it can be, and that she’s putting her whole heart in it – and donating her time. Someone like her did not need to do that. I’m grateful to have her. And since this is my first experience and I’ve found myself having to produce the play, her knowledge has made the process a thousand times easier.

We’d love to ask about a Tweet you posted recently

We are about 80 tickets from breaking even. At times it feels daunting, at times it feels within reach. Both times I’ll talk about it, because maybe I wouldn’t be so scared if other creatives had talked to me about the process. #openbooks #theatremaking— Judi (@Judi_Writes) January 5, 2023

What are the challenges that a show like yours faces in coming to the VAULT Festival?

Honestly there’s a million challenges. Your first time showcasing your work is bound to be nerve-wrecking. Now add the lack of funding, and all of a sudden you are wearing all the different hats. I can’t focus on the jitters because I have to produce, invite people, monitor our sales, ensure complete transparency in our books, do all our P&P… It’s overwhelming. I wake up and check our income. I’ve been picking up a lot more shifts at work just in case we don’t break even. All the while I am teaching myself how to do all these things. So it can be extremely challenging. But I have to say, we’ve been lucky because we’ve had some complete strangers offer their help. So it has also shown me there’s a lot of solidarity between new creatives.

As for the tweet you mentioned… People will showcase their wins and hide their losses. It’s self-preserving, and it makes sense when we are constantly judged on how much we achieve. But it’s extremely discouraging for people trying to get into the industry. If nobody talks about the rejections, the months you are too drained to write, the terror of losing all of your money if you don’t break even, then people like me coming into the industry might think they are the only ones experiencing it. They might feel very alone, or scared to ask for help – because if nobody else is struggling, then surely that means you are the one doing it wrong. But I’m too much of an oversharer to keep the process for myself, so I’ll be as honest as I can and hope it helps someone out there – and if I take a hit because of it… I think it’s still worth doing.

Is this a conversation that you think should be happening more widely among creatives to help or even just reassure younger or up and coming creatives?

Absolutely. New creatives are making such a difference in the industry anyway – they cast differently, they talk about money more openly, advocate for more diversity at all levels. But we’re also all fighting against the fact that there’s hardly any space for us, and even less money going around. So of course talking about your struggles feels terrifying, because if people begin to see you as “weak”, then there’s a hundred other people desperate to do what you do. But when you do talk about it absolutely makes a difference. And if we all start doing it, then that shows the downside of the industry – but also that you can overcome it, and that struggling doesn’t change your worth.

Photo Credit @ Henry Roberts

Photo Credit @ Henry Roberts

How have rehearsals been so far?

We had one rehearsal at Stratford East – the venue donated the space to us, and it was an amazing place to rehearse in. We got to take some incredible rehearsal shots in a place that looked and felt lively and professional, so we are very grateful for their help. All our other rehearsals have been at The Questors in Ealing. I wrote to them shortly after being denied funding, terrified of having to find affordable spaces in London to rehearse, and they couldn’t have been more accommodating. They gave us an amazing price, they let us rehearse later than their closing time, and have generally been brilliant help for us. We’ll be back.

What’s next for you and for For A Brief Moment?

Exciting news – we’ve been offered a transfer to a theatre for a short run! I’m not sure I can be more specific at the moment, but follow our socials for the announcement coming soon.

Finally, do you have any recommendations for other shows to check out at VAULT Festival?

SO MANY. Caligula and the Sea, Butchered (check out our interview here), Honour-Bound, Caceroleo, Hyena, Thirst, Right of Way, Sluts with Consoles, In Good Spirits, I F*cked You in My Spaceship, The Good Women, Gray Area, No I.D. – I’ll have to clone myself to see them all!

Our thanks to Judi for taking the time to have a chat with us. For a Brief Moment and Never Again Since plays VAULT Festival 2023 on 28 and 29 January. Further information and tickets can be found here. More