The âGuardians of the Galaxyâ director talks about the Twitter controversy that got him temporarily fired from Marvel, and his crossover to the DC franchise.One day in July 2018, James Gunn discovered that he was trending on Twitter and not for a good reason. Gunn, the filmmaker behind Marvelâs âGuardians of the Galaxyâ science-fiction series, had tweeted many deliberately crude jokes about the Holocaust, the 9/11 attacks, AIDS, pedophilia and rape. Now they had been resurfaced, steering waves of criticism his way. Gunn was fired from a planned third âGuardiansâ movie and he believed his career was over. âIt seemed like everything was gone,â he said recently.Gunn publicly apologized and his âGuardiansâ stars, including Chris Pratt and Zoe Saldana, rallied to his defense in an open letter. In March 2019, Gunn was hired back to the film franchise.Gunn had spent the months after his firing reflecting on himself while also working on an unexpected opportunity: Warner Bros. had tapped him to make a movie in its own superhero universe based on DC Comics characters. His entry, âThe Suicide Squad,â which he wrote and directed, chronicles a motley team of criminals, including the marksman Bloodsport (Idris Elba) and the saboteur Harley Quinn (Margot Robbie), selected by the ruthless Amanda Waller (Viola Davis) to complete a seemingly impossible mission.âThe Suicide Squad,â which will be released in theaters and on HBO Max on Aug. 6, follows the 2016 film âSuicide Squad,â written and directed by David Ayer, which was a commercial success but not well received by critics. Gunnâs take preserves the violence while adding further layers of outrageousness and absurd characters like the Polka-Dot Man (David Dastmalchian), the fish-human hybrid King Shark (voiced by Sylvester Stallone) and a malevolent alien starfish called Starro.As Gunn explained, âThereâs a sort of magical realism that we come into this film with. Yes, itâs weird to see a walking shark. But itâs not as weird as it would be in our universe.âGunn, whose credits include the low-budget genre satires âSlitherâ and âSuper,â spoke in late June in a video interview from Vancouver, British Columbia, where he is working on âPeacemaker,â a TV spinoff of âThe Suicide Squadâ starring that jingoistic adventurer played by John Cena.The 54-year-old Gunn has let his spiky hair go white and grown a tidy accompanying beard, giving him a look thatâs more mad scientist than industry upstart. But he remains chastened by his brief exile from Marvel. Speaking of âThe Suicide Squad,â he said, âThereâs dark humor in it, but the emotional part is there, too. I feel as if I was communicating my whole being.âGunn discussed his firing and rehiring by Marvel, the making of âThe Suicide Squadâ for DC and his perspective on the two superhero franchises. These are edited excerpts from that conversation.Gunn with Idris Elba among the cast and crew of âThe Suicide Squad.âJessica Miglio/Warner Bros.How did you first learn that you had been fired from Marvel?It was conveyed to me by Kevin Feige [the Marvel Studios president]. I called Kevin the morning it was going on, and I said, âIs this a big deal?â And he goes, âI donât know.â That was a moment. I was like, âYou donât know?â I was surprised. Later he called me â he himself was in shock â and told me what the powers that be had decided. It was unbelievable. And for a day, it seemed like everything was gone. Everything was gone. I was going to have to sell my house. I was never going to be able to work again. Thatâs what it felt like.Did the experience make you more careful about what you say, whether on social media or in general?Yes and no. Iâm more considerate of peopleâs feelings today. I had talked about this a lot before those tweets were [resurfaced]. They are awful things, thatâs what my sense of humor was back then. But before this ever happened, I realized that I had closed myself off to things I thought were schmaltzy because I didnât want to be vulnerable. This attitude â I can make a joke about anything, look how great I am â thatâs just not the fullness of me as a human being. And I learned that long before I got called out for the tweets.The term wasnât as prevalent at the time, but do you think you were a victim of what people now call âcancel cultureâ?I understand peopleâs preoccupation with that term. But itâs such a bigger issue than that. Because cancel culture also is people like Harvey Weinstein, who should be canceled. People who have gotten canceled and then remain canceled â most of those people deserved that. The paparazzi are not just the people on the streets â theyâre the people combing Twitter for any past sins. All of that sucks. Itâs painful. But some of it is accountability. And that part of it is good. Itâs just about finding that balance.When you see someone else now being punished for things theyâve posted online, are you sympathetic?Even when the person has done something terrible, I still feel sympathy for that person. Because Iâm a compassionate person and itâs part of my faith. Sometimes things get taken out of context. And sometimes somebody did something when they were in college â itâs 20 years later, theyâve lived a great life, itâs just too much. And then sometimes you read, oh, well, what he did was pretty awful.When did you start to realize that things werenât quite as dire? Did the public support of your âGuardiansâ actors make the difference?You do not understand the immensity of it until youâre in the middle of it. For a guy who feels like heâs done most things by himself and hasnât had a lot of backing from anyone, ever, and has had to claw my way from B movies to where I am today, you donât expect people to have your back. As somebody who does have a difficult time taking in the affection or the love of others, to have everybody around me â my girlfriend, my parents, my family, my manager, my publicists, all of the actors Iâve worked with â to have them come to my side and be there for me, that was an eye-opener for me. I felt really fulfilled and loved in a way that I had never felt in my entire life. And when Warner Bros. comes to me on the Monday after it happens and says, we want you, James Gunn, you think, wow, that feels good to hear.Asked about the nihilistic feel of âThe Suicide Squad,â Gunn pushed back: âFor me itâs about our changing world and people who have a very difficult time making connections being able to make some small connections.âAlana Paterson for The New York TimesSo while youâre in the midst of this potential scandal, Warner Bros. comes to you and asks if you might be interested in Superman, their flagship DC character?They proposed that to me. Toby Emmerich [the Warner Bros. Pictures Group chairman], he works out with my manager, and every morning he would say, âJames Gunn, Superman. James Gunn, Superman.âHow did you land on âThe Suicide Squadâ instead?At that time I said I canât commit myself to something right now. It was traumatic. I had to deal with myself. I just have to take a step back. So I took the different possibilities of projects I could work on, and for a month, every day I worked on a different project. I really wanted to make sure that whatever I was going to write was going to be a great story, and if it worked out and I felt like directing it, I could. âSuicide Squadâ was just the one that came to life immediately.Were you a fan of the comics?I really loved [the writer] John Ostranderâs take, which was taking these Z-grade villains and throwing them into black-ops situations where they were totally disposable and they wouldnât come out alive. I loved âThe Dirty Dozenâ as a kid. Itâs that same concept, mixed with a DC comic.How much were your choices defined by what youâd seen in the previous âSuicide Squadâ film?Not at all. I wanted to create what I thought of as the Suicide Squad. For me to react to Davidâs movie would make it the shadow of Davidâs movie. I wanted it to be its own thing completely. When Warner Bros. said they wanted me to do this, I watched the first movie for the first time, and I called them back and said, what do I have to keep from this movie? And they said, nothing. They said, listen, we would love it if Margotâs in the movie but she doesnât have to be. You could come up with all new characters or you could keep all the same characters.The previous film had a few big stars who arenât returning. Did you explore bringing back Jared Leto as Joker or Will Smith as Deadshot?Joker, no. I just donât know why Joker would be in the Suicide Squad. He wouldnât be helpful in that type of war situation. Will â I really wanted to work with Idris. It is a multi-protagonist film. We go off for a while with Margot, and Daniela [Melchior, who plays Ratcatcher 2] is the heart of the film in a lot of ways. But if thereâs one protagonist, itâs Idris. And I wanted somebody who had that gruff, âUnforgivenâ-type feeling about him. This guy who had been reduced from being a bigshot supervillain â he took Superman out of the sky â who is now scraping gum off the floor at the beginning of the movie. He absolutely doesnât want any part of it â he just has accepted this is his life. And I just think that character is Idris Elba.âThe Suicide Squadâ features a motley team culled from the DC universe, including Harley Quinn (Margot Robbie, second from right), all led by Rick Flag (Joel Kinnaman, center). Jessica Miglio/Warner Bros. This will be the third film, after âSuicide Squadâ and âBirds of Prey,â to try to find a place for Harley Quinn in DCâs movie universe. How do you see the character?For me, Harley Quinn belongs on the wall next to Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Spider-Man, Hulk. Most of my career has been writing characters who existed in the comics but werenât well-defined personalities, and having to create their cinematic personalities, whether itâs Star-Lord or Drax or Groot, who were all very different in the comics. Harley was pretty incredibly written by Paul Dini from the beginning, and so to be able to capture the essence of that character â her chaotic, sweet nature â and give her her due as the trickster and allow her to go wherever she wants, was surprising even to me as a writer.Did you take a certain pleasure in bringing back Viola Davis as Amanda Waller and letting her get her hands as dirty as some of the superhero characters?She has no qualms about doing that whatsoever. Sheâs just the sweetest person in the world and Waller is scary. When sheâs on set and that turn happens, I am literally afraid to come in and give her a note because of the look in her eyes. It is incredibly intimidating. She comes up to here [holds hand at height of his neck] on me. But it is. Sheâs amazing.Thereâs a built-in dispensability to your concept of âThe Suicide Squadâ that cuts against a studioâs desire for repeatable franchise films. Was it your goal to make the most nihilistic superhero movie of the modern era?I donât think itâs nihilistic. For me itâs about our changing world and people who have a very difficult time making connections being able to make some small connections. My mission statement was just to make the most fun film I could and not balk at anything. I knew I had a chance that very few filmmakers have ever had, which is to make a huge-budget film with no holds barred in terms of the plot, the effects, the sets. I felt a responsibility to take chances.What if, after a yearlong pandemic, mass audiences arenât ready for a movie with so much wanton death and destruction?I actually think the emotion and the humor help to even off the harsher aspects of it. I think itâs a perfect movie for now. Itâs just a matter of where are we going to be with Covid and being safe. [âF9â] did great, so Iâm hopeful thereâs a real appetite for it. I was talking to my 80-year-old mother this morning. She wants to come see it. Iâm like, Mom, this movie has a lot of sharks ripping people in half in it. [Gentle voice] âI know, I donât care, Jimmy.â Sheâll love it.Does it seem strange that the DC films can encompass movies like âThe Suicide Squad,â which unabashedly earns its R rating, and also movies like âShazam!,â which are more family-oriented?I think itâs great. That is the one of the ways in which DC can distinguish itself from Marvel. What I do is very different from what [the âAnt-Manâ director] Peyton Reed does, itâs very different from what [the âIron Manâ director Jon] Favreau did, itâs different from Taika [Waititi, the director of âThor: Ragnarokâ]. But not as different as âShazam!â and âSuicide Squad,â however. I think the current batch of folks over at Warner Bros. are really interested in building out a world and creating something thatâs unique to the filmmakers. Weâre in a strange time, so anything can happen.Gunn with Michael Rooker (as the blue-skinned Yondu) on the set of âGuardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2.âChuck Zlotnick/Marvel/DisneyYouâre the first director whoâs made films for both Marvel and DC â[Fake cough] Joss Whedon. Iâm the first one to receive a directing credit on the Marvel and DC movies. [Laughs.]Do you see major differences with how Marvel and DC approach their film franchises?Yes, but not as many as people probably think. Thereâs no doubt Kevin Feige is way more involved with editing than people are at Warner Bros. He gives more notes. You donât have to take them and I donât always take them. Then again, I had more problems. If you saw the first cut of âGuardiansâ 1, it had more problems, because that was my first time making something so gigantic and thereâs some learning to what works and what doesnât, carving away the excess stuff. The truth is, as Marvel goes on and Kevin Feige starts to amass ownership of half of all film in general, heâs more spread out.Are you free to make more films for DC going forward or are you exclusive to Marvel?I have no clue what Iâm going to do. For me, âGuardians 3â is probably the last one. I donât know about doing it again. I do find, because of the ability to do different stuff in the DC multiverse, itâs fun. Theyâre starting to really resemble their comic books. The Marvel Universe has always been a little more cohesive, and DC has always had more great single runs. They had The Dark Knight Returns. They had Watchmen. They had The Killing Joke. They had Alan Mooreâs Swamp Thing. The fact that they did âJoker,â which is a totally different type of movie, that to me is cool. Iâm very excited about Mattâs movie [âThe Batman,â from Matt Reeves]. Theyâre getting some really good filmmakers involved. Theyâre always going to be hit or miss â I just donât want them to get boring.You got your start in the world of low-budget cinema. Do you think you might return to something thatâs smaller and faster to make?I love toys and the explosions and the cameras, frankly. I love to be able to work on a big playing field. If I had a smaller, more intimate thing that I wanted to do, I would definitely do that. Right now I really just want to nap, but I still have another major motion picture to make before that. I canât wait to see the Marvel gang again â those people are my family. Itâs so much different than people on Twitter. Everybody is significantly nicer. More