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    The Antihero’s Last Gasp

    In the popular Amazon Prime series “The Boys,” Hughie, an irrepressibly earnest young man who runs with the title group of misfits, is forced to decide — several times — if he’s willing to sell his soul to the devil in exchange for justice. And by “the devil” I mean Billy Butcher, the ruthless, potty-mouthed leader of the team of soldiers and assassins devoted to fighting, extorting, torturing and killing superheroes.Hughie’s our Everyman — our well-meaning protagonist who gets thrown in with Butcher’s crew and serves as his moral compass. While Butcher viciously feeds his vendetta against “supes,” Hughie tries to fight for justice without shedding more blood.In the inside-out world of “The Boys,” which just concluded its third season, Hughie discovers that there are no moral absolutes. The superheroes who are Butcher’s targets? Murderers, rapists, and (in the bland smiling visage of Homelander) a proto-fascist. Clear-cut understandings of who’s a hero and who’s a villain fly — like a bird, like a plane, or like a Superman — out the window.Three members of “The Boys,” who recognize that superheroes aren’t all that super, from left: Tomer Capone as Frenchie, Jack Quaid as Hughie, and Karl Urban as Billy Butcher.Panagiotis Pantazidis/Amazon StudiosAnd with them goes the longstanding comic-book archetype meant to split the difference: the antihero. The old model — the brooding, traumatized crusader in black who toes the line between good and evil, whom we root for even as he descends into moral (and too often, literal) darkness — has become a gross parody of itself.Once a contradictory figure meant to represent both the fresh sins of a modern world and a righteous crusade for justice, the antihero is too often written to such base extremes that it negates the very reason he first became a popular trope — because antiheroes can exist only in a universe in which idealized notions of heroism, and the concept of good and bad, still exist.Plenty of observers have argued that prestige TV reached this impasse, too, when the warped values represented by such beloved characters as Tony Soprano, Walter White and Dexter Morgan grew tired, giving way to the cheery “Ted Lasso” and the family of outsiders in “Pose.”In the comic-book-spawned worlds that, for better or worse, dominate popular culture, creators have tried to resurrect the antihero, to varying degrees of success.There’s more to their struggle than fluttering capes and face-contouring masks. Comic book heroes reflect the morals of our society; the antihero has become a symbol of our muddled ethics and the contradictions we embrace under the guise of justice.‘The Batman’ as Dead EndHow did we get here? We need to talk about that billionaire with the bat fetish — Batman, the quintessential antihero.It’s 1940, just months after his comic book debut, and two goons are escaping in a truck. Into his Batplane our hero goes: “But out of the sky, spitting death the Batman!” one panel reads. In the next he grimaces from the cockpit as he looks through the sight of the plane’s machine gun. “Much as I hate to take human life, I’m afraid this time it’s necessary!” he insists while the bullets fly. He’s only a threat to Gotham’s criminals. He’ll bend the rules but won’t break them.The campy 1960s TV series rendered him into a milk-drinking do-gooder, in keeping with attitudes about violence and ethics in children’s television of the time. When the film franchise began, the directors Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher introduced the dark and garish Gotham. Still, their portrayals were threaded with loony humor and irony.In Christopher Nolan’s movie trilogy, based on the comic book writer Frank Miller’s gritty Dark Knight reboot, Gotham gradually crumbles, the rubble and squalor are palpable, the impact of a crime-ridden city meaningful.Robert Pattinson as the title hero in the preposterously dour Matt Reeves film reboot of “The Batman.” Jonathan Olley/Warner Bros.In three hours of listless dolor, Matt Reeves’s oppressively dour “The Batman,” which came out this spring, turned its hero into a comically emo Bat-adolescent. Though Bruce Wayne was traumatized by witnessed his parents’ murder, the film focuses so heavily on his forlorn expressions and tantrums that his pain seemed merely ornamental.It’s why the barbs delivered by a parody like “The Lego Batman Movie” hit their self-serious target. “I don’t talk about feelings, Alfred,” the Lego-block Batman declares while caught mournfully looking at his family photos. “I don’t have any, I’ve never seen one. I’m a night-stalking, crime-fighting vigilante, and a heavy-metal rapping machine.”The Jekyll-and-Hyde SolutionIn the 2018 movie “Venom,” Eddie Brock is a dogged investigative reporter who loses his job (and his relationship) for refusing to compromise his ideals while reporting on the shifty doings at a major corporation. Then he’s infected with Venom, a sentient alien being that controls his body and gives him superhuman abilities. Venom wants to kill and eat people; Eddie wants to help them.Explore the Marvel Cinematic UniverseThe popular franchise of superhero films and TV series continues to expand.‘Thor: Love and Thunder’: The fourth “Thor” movie in 11 years, directed by Taika Waititi, embraces wholesale self-parody and is sillier than any of its predecessors.‘Ms. Marvel’: This Disney+ series introduces a new character: Kamala Khan, a Muslim high schooler in Jersey City who is mysteriously granted superpowers.‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’: With a touch of horror, the franchise’s newest film returns to the world of the mystic arts.‘Moon Knight’: In the Disney+ mini-series, Oscar Isaac plays a caped crusader who struggles with dissociative identity disorder.“Venom” is one of several recent films and TV series that make the antihero into a Jekyll-and-Hyde figure, caught between his worst inclinations and best intentions.The Hyde side of the Jekyll-and-Hyde-like antihero Venom.Sony Pictures, via Associated PressIn this year’s “Morbius,” the title character is a Nobel Prize-winning scientist on a search for a cure for his chronic illness. He combines his DNA with a bat’s and becomes newly healthy, but a feral human vampire. He regrets his research, deciding he’s made himself into a monster. Yet when his best friend steals some of the serum for himself, he transforms into an even more vicious beast whom Morbius must stop.That’s another trick to keep the antihero in play: Throw in someone who’s worse than our protagonist. Morality is relative, so at least for a moment, while there are worse villains in the world, we can have something that resembles a hero.Laughing MattersAnother way the culture industry has kept antiheroes popular is by lacing their stories with a dose of often self-deprecating humor. Deadpool, Harley Quinn and the Peacemaker — in the movies and TV series built around them — break the rules and kill rampantly, yet still save innocents.All the while they get distracted by zany side-quests, pal around with odd sidekicks and preen narcissistically. We laugh because they remain fully aware of the pitfalls of hero worship and the ridiculous notion of a bad hero; they either embrace the gray area between good and evil or all but erase it completely, acknowledging that the world is rarely that simple.Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool, whose violent ways are laughed off in the movie of that name.Joe Lederer/20th Century Fox, via Associated PressEven his allies find holes in the moral code put forth by the Peacemaker, played by John Cena. “I think liberty is just your excuse to do whatever you want,” one tells him.HBO MaxThe Peacemaker, a character who appeared in James Gunn’s 2021 film “The Suicide Squad” and this year got his own spinoff series on HBO Max, starring John Cena, is a dimwitted, misogynistic Captain America-esque hero who fights for justice — even if that means killing women and children.In “The Suicide Squad,” his teammate Bloodsport calls out the inconsistencies in the Peacemaker’s moral code: “I think liberty is just your excuse to do whatever you want.” And in the series, other characters point out his glaring biases, like the fact that most of the “bad guys” he confronts are people of color.It’s worth stopping to point out that some of the disparity in how antiheroes have evolved can be attributed to the different philosophies of competing franchises.In the family-friendly Marvel Cinematic Universe (owned by Disney) the antihero can be rehabilitated. Black Widow, Hawkeye, the Winter Soldier, Scarlet Witch, even “The Avengers” antagonist Loki all get redemption arcs, despite the wrongs they’ve committed in the past.The challenge — and it’s a big one, as the franchises morph and blend and reboot, to keep going and going and going — is maintaining any sense of coherence or moral logic.In 2016’s “Batman v Superman,” DC’s miserable Batman fights a miserable Superman over who has the authority to be the hero. In “Captain America: Civil War” from that same year, Marvel’s Captain America and his allies fight Iron Man and his friends over whether or not their actions should be regulated by the government. These battles are equally inane.If one hero is a vigilante on the run for protecting his assassin best friend, and one hero is pro-government but made his money selling guns for warfare, who has the moral high ground? Is there really any difference between a hero and an antihero if everyone is making rules up as they go?Women WarriorsAs I’ve been talking about antiheroes, I’ve been using the pronoun “he.” That’s intentional, because the antihero is so often an avatar of traditional markers of masculinity. He broods over his past. He muscles his way through his obstacles, almost always with a six-pack and bulging biceps. He’s a rapscallion who can fight the law because coded within the archetype is a male privilege that depicts him as an unstoppable force; he is his own judicial system.The female antihero (as scarce as they still are) resists being a cookie-cutter figure. She is less emotionally opaque than her male counterparts, but she can be devious. She is willing to break the rules because she realizes the rules weren’t created for women like her anyway.Krysten Ritter, the title character in “Jessica Jones,” being terrorized by David Tennant as Killgrave.David Giesbrecht/NetflixTake Harley Quinn. She arrived on the scene as the girlfriend of the Joker in an animated “Batman” series. But thanks to Margot Robbie’s dotty performance in “Suicide Squad,” her popularity led to her own film, “Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn).” As its lengthy subtitle suggests, the movie frees the character from being a sidekick.The brutally hilarious “Harley Quinn” animated series from 2019 does the same work; it begins with another female villain, Poison Ivy, helping Harley Quinn to realize that her self-worth lies outside of her toxic relationship with the Joker. She can make for herself a life of both high jinks and crime.Jessica Jones, the title character of the Marvel series of the same name, offers a useful contrast to what Batman has become. She, too, witnesses the death of her parents. In her case, it’s caused by an accident that leaves her with superhuman abilities.She is an alcoholic and a loner with trust issues, who for years was assaulted and manipulated by the mind-control villain Killgrave. Her suffering is gender-specific, and when she uses her powers in ways that are less than heroic, she feels utterly human.When Fans Call the ShotsIn a widely seen photo of the Jan. 6 Capitol riots, a Proud Boy jumps the railing in the Senate chamber; on his vest, printed over an image of the American flag, is a white skull.This is the logo of the popular comic book character known as The Punisher.The Punisher has been featured in three live-action movies and, most recently, a Marvel TV series starring Jon Bernthal. He’s a Marine-turned-vigilante who begins a vicious war on crime after his family is killed by the mob. Murder, torture, extortion — the Punisher’s methods make Batman’s worst throttlings look like playful slaps on the wrist.Jon Bernthal, who stars in “The Punisher” on Netflix, has publicly taken issue with the alt-right fans who’ve embraced the character as a hero.Jessica Miglio/NetflixHe is also the character who makes most clear that if not handled with care, the ambiguity and sympathetic back story granted a violent antihero can offer real-world cover for despicable actions.For years police and military officers have embraced the character as a can-do man of action. But more recently he’s been adopted by the alt-right Proud Boys, the skull image showing up at the 2017 white nationalist rally in Charlottesville as well. Both Bernthal and the character’s creator, Gerry Conway, have publicly chastised the alt-right fans who’ve heralded the Punisher as a hero and adopted him as a model of justice.In fact, this year Marvel Comics has officially moved the Punisher to the dark side; he’s now an enforcer in The Hand, an underground syndicate of supervillains.“The Boys” is especially shrewd on this dilemma, explicitly satirizing toxic fandoms. As the so-called heroes got even more brazen this season, lying and committing crimes in public, their fans grew more enamored with them. What used to look like an engaged fan community was perverted into an incipient fascist movement.Where ‘The Boys’ May Take UsIn the original “Boys” comics on which the TV series is based, everyone is equally corrupt and equally punished. It’s a thoroughly nihilistic vision.The TV version, now that we’re three seasons in, is more optimistic, contending that people are as good as they challenge themselves to be, redeemable when reckoning with their wrongs.In the beginning of this season, Hughie seems to have found a middle place in the war between Butcher’s crew and the superheroes: He leads a government agency set up to regulate the behavior of heroes who’ve stepped out of line.Butcher scoffs at Hughie’s career move, and turns out to be right. Hughie soon discovers the job isn’t what he thought it would be, and the challenges are more than bureaucratic: There’s corruption on this path as well. So Hughie decides Butcher’s brutal approach has been right all along: stopping the superheroes by any means necessary.Butcher, meanwhile, bends his absolutism, occasionally granting supes mercy and even looking after Ryan, the superpowered child who accidentally killed his wife.The categories of hero and villain — and, yes, antihero — don’t do the job in “The Boys,” which is why the series is so arresting. We’re left with complex individuals breaking from the simple archetypes these scripts so often place them in.Such labels are certainly letting us down, and not merely in the world of the comics. Tales of heroes and villains feel, right now, like the stuff of fables. Mass shootings, climate change, human rights, women’s rights — each has been twisted into a narrative of right and wrong that suits the needs of the storyteller, whether that’s the politician, the judge, the voter, the media.About halfway through “The Boys,” one do-gooder supe tries to convince a corrupt corporate henchwoman to do the right thing, but she replies, uneasily, that she doesn’t have superpowers.How can she help save the day? The hero replies, “You don’t need powers. You just need to be human.”Forget the capes, the masks and the powers. We need humans — being good, being bad. As for heroes? They’re the ones who make mistakes and atone for them, who try — and fail, but still try — to stay honest in a broken world. More

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    James Gunn Nearly Blew Up His Career. Now He’s Back With ‘The Suicide Squad’

    The “Guardians of the Galaxy” director talks about the Twitter controversy that got him temporarily fired from Marvel, and his crossover to the DC franchise.One day in July 2018, James Gunn discovered that he was trending on Twitter and not for a good reason. Gunn, the filmmaker behind Marvel’s “Guardians of the Galaxy” science-fiction series, had tweeted many deliberately crude jokes about the Holocaust, the 9/11 attacks, AIDS, pedophilia and rape. Now they had been resurfaced, steering waves of criticism his way. Gunn was fired from a planned third “Guardians” movie and he believed his career was over. “It seemed like everything was gone,” he said recently.Gunn publicly apologized and his “Guardians” stars, including Chris Pratt and Zoe Saldana, rallied to his defense in an open letter. In March 2019, Gunn was hired back to the film franchise.Gunn had spent the months after his firing reflecting on himself while also working on an unexpected opportunity: Warner Bros. had tapped him to make a movie in its own superhero universe based on DC Comics characters. His entry, “The Suicide Squad,” which he wrote and directed, chronicles a motley team of criminals, including the marksman Bloodsport (Idris Elba) and the saboteur Harley Quinn (Margot Robbie), selected by the ruthless Amanda Waller (Viola Davis) to complete a seemingly impossible mission.“The Suicide Squad,” which will be released in theaters and on HBO Max on Aug. 6, follows the 2016 film “Suicide Squad,” written and directed by David Ayer, which was a commercial success but not well received by critics. Gunn’s take preserves the violence while adding further layers of outrageousness and absurd characters like the Polka-Dot Man (David Dastmalchian), the fish-human hybrid King Shark (voiced by Sylvester Stallone) and a malevolent alien starfish called Starro.As Gunn explained, “There’s a sort of magical realism that we come into this film with. Yes, it’s weird to see a walking shark. But it’s not as weird as it would be in our universe.”Gunn, whose credits include the low-budget genre satires “Slither” and “Super,” spoke in late June in a video interview from Vancouver, British Columbia, where he is working on “Peacemaker,” a TV spinoff of “The Suicide Squad” starring that jingoistic adventurer played by John Cena.The 54-year-old Gunn has let his spiky hair go white and grown a tidy accompanying beard, giving him a look that’s more mad scientist than industry upstart. But he remains chastened by his brief exile from Marvel. Speaking of “The Suicide Squad,” he said, “There’s dark humor in it, but the emotional part is there, too. I feel as if I was communicating my whole being.”Gunn discussed his firing and rehiring by Marvel, the making of “The Suicide Squad” for DC and his perspective on the two superhero franchises. These are edited excerpts from that conversation.Gunn with Idris Elba among the cast and crew of “The Suicide Squad.”Jessica Miglio/Warner Bros.How did you first learn that you had been fired from Marvel?It was conveyed to me by Kevin Feige [the Marvel Studios president]. I called Kevin the morning it was going on, and I said, “Is this a big deal?” And he goes, “I don’t know.” That was a moment. I was like, “You don’t know?” I was surprised. Later he called me — he himself was in shock — and told me what the powers that be had decided. It was unbelievable. And for a day, it seemed like everything was gone. Everything was gone. I was going to have to sell my house. I was never going to be able to work again. That’s what it felt like.Did the experience make you more careful about what you say, whether on social media or in general?Yes and no. I’m more considerate of people’s feelings today. I had talked about this a lot before those tweets were [resurfaced]. They are awful things, that’s what my sense of humor was back then. But before this ever happened, I realized that I had closed myself off to things I thought were schmaltzy because I didn’t want to be vulnerable. This attitude — I can make a joke about anything, look how great I am — that’s just not the fullness of me as a human being. And I learned that long before I got called out for the tweets.The term wasn’t as prevalent at the time, but do you think you were a victim of what people now call “cancel culture”?I understand people’s preoccupation with that term. But it’s such a bigger issue than that. Because cancel culture also is people like Harvey Weinstein, who should be canceled. People who have gotten canceled and then remain canceled — most of those people deserved that. The paparazzi are not just the people on the streets — they’re the people combing Twitter for any past sins. All of that sucks. It’s painful. But some of it is accountability. And that part of it is good. It’s just about finding that balance.When you see someone else now being punished for things they’ve posted online, are you sympathetic?Even when the person has done something terrible, I still feel sympathy for that person. Because I’m a compassionate person and it’s part of my faith. Sometimes things get taken out of context. And sometimes somebody did something when they were in college — it’s 20 years later, they’ve lived a great life, it’s just too much. And then sometimes you read, oh, well, what he did was pretty awful.When did you start to realize that things weren’t quite as dire? Did the public support of your “Guardians” actors make the difference?You do not understand the immensity of it until you’re in the middle of it. For a guy who feels like he’s done most things by himself and hasn’t had a lot of backing from anyone, ever, and has had to claw my way from B movies to where I am today, you don’t expect people to have your back. As somebody who does have a difficult time taking in the affection or the love of others, to have everybody around me — my girlfriend, my parents, my family, my manager, my publicists, all of the actors I’ve worked with — to have them come to my side and be there for me, that was an eye-opener for me. I felt really fulfilled and loved in a way that I had never felt in my entire life. And when Warner Bros. comes to me on the Monday after it happens and says, we want you, James Gunn, you think, wow, that feels good to hear.Asked about the nihilistic feel of “The Suicide Squad,” Gunn pushed back: “For me it’s about our changing world and people who have a very difficult time making connections being able to make some small connections.”Alana Paterson for The New York TimesSo while you’re in the midst of this potential scandal, Warner Bros. comes to you and asks if you might be interested in Superman, their flagship DC character?They proposed that to me. Toby Emmerich [the Warner Bros. Pictures Group chairman], he works out with my manager, and every morning he would say, “James Gunn, Superman. James Gunn, Superman.”How did you land on “The Suicide Squad” instead?At that time I said I can’t commit myself to something right now. It was traumatic. I had to deal with myself. I just have to take a step back. So I took the different possibilities of projects I could work on, and for a month, every day I worked on a different project. I really wanted to make sure that whatever I was going to write was going to be a great story, and if it worked out and I felt like directing it, I could. “Suicide Squad” was just the one that came to life immediately.Were you a fan of the comics?I really loved [the writer] John Ostrander’s take, which was taking these Z-grade villains and throwing them into black-ops situations where they were totally disposable and they wouldn’t come out alive. I loved “The Dirty Dozen” as a kid. It’s that same concept, mixed with a DC comic.How much were your choices defined by what you’d seen in the previous “Suicide Squad” film?Not at all. I wanted to create what I thought of as the Suicide Squad. For me to react to David’s movie would make it the shadow of David’s movie. I wanted it to be its own thing completely. When Warner Bros. said they wanted me to do this, I watched the first movie for the first time, and I called them back and said, what do I have to keep from this movie? And they said, nothing. They said, listen, we would love it if Margot’s in the movie but she doesn’t have to be. You could come up with all new characters or you could keep all the same characters.The previous film had a few big stars who aren’t returning. Did you explore bringing back Jared Leto as Joker or Will Smith as Deadshot?Joker, no. I just don’t know why Joker would be in the Suicide Squad. He wouldn’t be helpful in that type of war situation. Will — I really wanted to work with Idris. It is a multi-protagonist film. We go off for a while with Margot, and Daniela [Melchior, who plays Ratcatcher 2] is the heart of the film in a lot of ways. But if there’s one protagonist, it’s Idris. And I wanted somebody who had that gruff, “Unforgiven”-type feeling about him. This guy who had been reduced from being a bigshot supervillain — he took Superman out of the sky — who is now scraping gum off the floor at the beginning of the movie. He absolutely doesn’t want any part of it — he just has accepted this is his life. And I just think that character is Idris Elba.“The Suicide Squad” features a motley team culled from the DC universe, including Harley Quinn (Margot Robbie, second from right), all led by Rick Flag (Joel Kinnaman, center). Jessica Miglio/Warner Bros. This will be the third film, after “Suicide Squad” and “Birds of Prey,” to try to find a place for Harley Quinn in DC’s movie universe. How do you see the character?For me, Harley Quinn belongs on the wall next to Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Spider-Man, Hulk. Most of my career has been writing characters who existed in the comics but weren’t well-defined personalities, and having to create their cinematic personalities, whether it’s Star-Lord or Drax or Groot, who were all very different in the comics. Harley was pretty incredibly written by Paul Dini from the beginning, and so to be able to capture the essence of that character — her chaotic, sweet nature — and give her her due as the trickster and allow her to go wherever she wants, was surprising even to me as a writer.Did you take a certain pleasure in bringing back Viola Davis as Amanda Waller and letting her get her hands as dirty as some of the superhero characters?She has no qualms about doing that whatsoever. She’s just the sweetest person in the world and Waller is scary. When she’s on set and that turn happens, I am literally afraid to come in and give her a note because of the look in her eyes. It is incredibly intimidating. She comes up to here [holds hand at height of his neck] on me. But it is. She’s amazing.There’s a built-in dispensability to your concept of “The Suicide Squad” that cuts against a studio’s desire for repeatable franchise films. Was it your goal to make the most nihilistic superhero movie of the modern era?I don’t think it’s nihilistic. For me it’s about our changing world and people who have a very difficult time making connections being able to make some small connections. My mission statement was just to make the most fun film I could and not balk at anything. I knew I had a chance that very few filmmakers have ever had, which is to make a huge-budget film with no holds barred in terms of the plot, the effects, the sets. I felt a responsibility to take chances.What if, after a yearlong pandemic, mass audiences aren’t ready for a movie with so much wanton death and destruction?I actually think the emotion and the humor help to even off the harsher aspects of it. I think it’s a perfect movie for now. It’s just a matter of where are we going to be with Covid and being safe. [“F9”] did great, so I’m hopeful there’s a real appetite for it. I was talking to my 80-year-old mother this morning. She wants to come see it. I’m like, Mom, this movie has a lot of sharks ripping people in half in it. [Gentle voice] “I know, I don’t care, Jimmy.” She’ll love it.Does it seem strange that the DC films can encompass movies like “The Suicide Squad,” which unabashedly earns its R rating, and also movies like “Shazam!,” which are more family-oriented?I think it’s great. That is the one of the ways in which DC can distinguish itself from Marvel. What I do is very different from what [the “Ant-Man” director] Peyton Reed does, it’s very different from what [the “Iron Man” director Jon] Favreau did, it’s different from Taika [Waititi, the director of “Thor: Ragnarok”]. But not as different as “Shazam!” and “Suicide Squad,” however. I think the current batch of folks over at Warner Bros. are really interested in building out a world and creating something that’s unique to the filmmakers. We’re in a strange time, so anything can happen.Gunn with Michael Rooker (as the blue-skinned Yondu) on the set of “Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2.”Chuck Zlotnick/Marvel/DisneyYou’re the first director who’s made films for both Marvel and DC —[Fake cough] Joss Whedon. I’m the first one to receive a directing credit on the Marvel and DC movies. [Laughs.]Do you see major differences with how Marvel and DC approach their film franchises?Yes, but not as many as people probably think. There’s no doubt Kevin Feige is way more involved with editing than people are at Warner Bros. He gives more notes. You don’t have to take them and I don’t always take them. Then again, I had more problems. If you saw the first cut of “Guardians” 1, it had more problems, because that was my first time making something so gigantic and there’s some learning to what works and what doesn’t, carving away the excess stuff. The truth is, as Marvel goes on and Kevin Feige starts to amass ownership of half of all film in general, he’s more spread out.Are you free to make more films for DC going forward or are you exclusive to Marvel?I have no clue what I’m going to do. For me, “Guardians 3” is probably the last one. I don’t know about doing it again. I do find, because of the ability to do different stuff in the DC multiverse, it’s fun. They’re starting to really resemble their comic books. The Marvel Universe has always been a little more cohesive, and DC has always had more great single runs. They had The Dark Knight Returns. They had Watchmen. They had The Killing Joke. They had Alan Moore’s Swamp Thing. The fact that they did “Joker,” which is a totally different type of movie, that to me is cool. I’m very excited about Matt’s movie [“The Batman,” from Matt Reeves]. They’re getting some really good filmmakers involved. They’re always going to be hit or miss — I just don’t want them to get boring.You got your start in the world of low-budget cinema. Do you think you might return to something that’s smaller and faster to make?I love toys and the explosions and the cameras, frankly. I love to be able to work on a big playing field. If I had a smaller, more intimate thing that I wanted to do, I would definitely do that. Right now I really just want to nap, but I still have another major motion picture to make before that. I can’t wait to see the Marvel gang again — those people are my family. It’s so much different than people on Twitter. Everybody is significantly nicer. More